GM : Ally Bain
Starting date : 26th March 2008
End date : 25th June 2008
Result : Three-way draw - England, Germany & Italy

AUSTRIA	paul woods	Eliminated
ENGLAND	Roy Upson	Drew
FRANCE	Rohan Nijhawan	Eliminated
GERMANY	Brian Koon	Drew
ITALY	Sebastian Egerton-Read	Drew
RUSSIA	Stephen Custance-baker	Survived
TURKEY	James Gowar	Survived

GM : Ally Bain
Sadly, I wish I didn't bother GM that game for mainly one reason but seeing a game without an End Game; that might make a second reason.

That second comment is one of the very good reasons that I've put in the add-on rules that ARE stated in the Gamestart, that no EGP is allowed until after A05. I'm simply someone who can't stand watching or playing in games where no effort to win takes place & also where stupid EGP are shown, meaning that if no-one votes against, means the game ends.

Yes, I've played for over 25 years & in games where a draw was the only result but often caused by stalemate lines being created to stop a solo. To add that, most of those were F-F games & players personal time was more restricted than PBEM or PBM.

Anyway, to the first reason of wishing I didn’t bother but prior to that, as you know I didn’t submit the EGS on Monday. That was caused as I realised I’ll have to think twice about my EGS. My question was whether I’ll regret it or not or should I write it differently? That’s for me to know & not you but to the problem.

I'm not going to mention his name other than to say that comments mentioned in his e-mail stated two things but not the one that really angered me. I don’t mind players asking if I’m right or wrong as that was partly proved with me changing my mind about the invalid misorders BUT the number of e-mails I received in which he stated I was wrong is something else.

The number received about the Proxy was stupid especially when the player, who gave the Proxy, was aware that the Proxy was removed. The very nature of these e-mails was equally stupid & again when I was asked if I have access to any chat room in which he wanted to chat to me about it. I no longer use chat rooms but if I did, I wouldn't enter into that chat & discuss to a player about something that isn't his business.

As for the EGP after A05, as said above that rule WAS in the Gamestart & soon a copy/paste of an e-mail that Pete Smith pointed out to me in his reply to me when I raised it with him but prior to that, the person in question felt my EGP wasn't in Avalon Hill so I must not use it. Well if that was the case, consider this & these are written in Avalon Hill so when read, read Dip2000 Houserules & you'll spot differences:

1) Written within the 'Gamemaster' paragragh & is '...& make rulings when necessary'. 2) Written in 'Civil Disorder' & is '...to remove units, the units farthest from the country are removed first...' at no stage does it state about bypassing units on a SC, whereas Dip2000 does, rule 4.

So again the point, I've added an EGP rule to the Gamestart & that's it & again, to prove that, this is a copy/paste of Pete's e-mail to me:

'Hi Ally,

as you know, as a player and a GM, I don't think it is proper to complain to a number of GM's about the way a GM is running the game.

Comments, complaints or concerns like this should be sent in private to admin or TT, so they can have a look, and act as they see fit. Having looked at the game, it did say in the game start the way you do your egp. I am under the impression that as long as the GM tells players about the way he will run the game in the gamestart, that is quite sufficient. Having checked with Admin, I am right.

You have you're reasons for doing it this way, I for one as you well know, when I run gunboats do not allow press, owing the way it was abused when I ran a few games, other GM's let it be published, you being one of them. This banning of press is pointed out in my gamestart mail to all players in my gunboat games.

When the gamestart was sent out for this game, players had more than enough time to query the rule on egs, and they should have brought it up then. To do so halfway though a game sounds like sour grapes to me mate.

I hope the person puts the egp rule down to experance, and before he take on a new game, he first check's out the GM, see what he normally does, and if he doesn't want to play under that GM, removes himself from the waiting list. Don't forget mate, you can as a GM block players from being included in your games, and if someone gets right up your nose, that is what I would do, having done it a few times myself. Hope the game carry's on ok, you have a good bunch among them. Pete'.

Sadly I can't find the way in which we, as GMs, can block players from being in our games whereas it was the case a while ago. Hopefully I've missed the Command & someone will show me it.

In closing, to the other six in this game, I'm sorry you've had to read this as whether you want me to, I'm more than happy to met you in other games. To the player in question, grow up!

AUSTRIA : paul woods

ENGLAND : Roy Upson
Moor was my first Dip game back at the Dip2K site after an 18 month break. I recognized two names from past games- Seb and Brian. I researched the site and discovered that both had done VERY well during my absense. Moor promised to be an interesting game to get back into the hobby! My initial diplomacy seemed to go well. I reached a deal with Stephen regarding the peaceful division of Scandivaia ( as in no bounce in Norway!). Brian was friendly and communicated frequently. Rohan shared my concerns about Brian as Germany. After a minimum of emails Rohan agreed to DMZ the Channel. I was not sure what to do- I wanted to attack Brian- the bigger threat in the game BUT Brian talked...a lot. Rohan agreed to DMZ the Channel but did not communicate often. I easily received 15-20 emails from Brian per email from Rohan. I was also hearing from the other side of the board that a Sealion was being planned (Paul). I decided that I HAD to go to the Channel to be safe. The S 1901 orders were interesting to say the least! I had gotten the Channel- Rohan had told the truth. Brian did as he said he was. Unfortunetly Stephen did not. He moved A Mos north. I have no clue why, but he did. That one turn pretty much decided my alliances for me for the balance of the game. I offered to make up with Rohan, but feared a Sealion was in the works. Brian kept insisting that it wasn't. Rohan bought my blather about Brian, and told me that he would support me into Bel. I instead grabbed Brest. I was bounced in Norway by Stephen. I had stabbed Rohan, was very angry with Stephen, and still feared Brian- I do believe one of his builds was F Kiel! After a frenzied week of diplomacy, I threw in with Brian. We would work together against Rohan and Stephen. A turn or two later Stephen wrote looking to work against the rapidly growing Germans. I wanted nothing to do with a stab on Germany..at that time. Brian had honored every deal I had with him, whereas Stephen had picked a fight by bouncing in Norway. That turn I slid into StP. The rest of the game saw Brian and myself dismember poor Rohan, while Seb and Brian worked in the east. I realized that we now had a three major powers. I was fearful of how close Brian and Seb were. I had no close working relationship with Seb. I contemplated stabbing both, but believed I was too spread out- Brian had two fleets and could take StP while Seb was building fleets. So I ( along with several others I believe) proposed an EGI 3 way and it passed. Seb: Nice working with you at the end. I was hesitant to work with you early as I preferred a weak Rohan as a neihbor over a strong Italy. Rohan: I never intended to stab you at start, it just kind of happened. Sorry, but if we had talked more then I would have moved against that ogre known as Brian! Paul: Thanks for the tip on Stephen moving my way. I couldn't help you directly early in the game. James: Who were you? Just joking. We never really had a chance to get much of anything going. I was focused on France early on. Stephen: Your bounce in Norway bothered me. You had your reasons. When I had the opportunity, I stabbed back. Later in the game I learned to appreciate your Diplomacy abilities. I was seriously thinking about joining your anti Germany/Italy effort. When James did not come on board, I was forced to continue working with Brian and later Seb. Brian: What an odd game. My initial though when I saw who was what country was that you were the top threat and had to be removed. That concept didn't last long! It was very pleasant working with you. It was very interesting watching the level of trust between us build. Nice game and congrats on a job well done! Ally: Thanks for GM'ing. You did a great job!

Roy

GERMANY : Brian Koon
First of all thanks to Ally for GMing, and being a good sport. There were several instances as to where I challenged him as a GM. 1) about showing misorders, which he agreed with me in the end on. There was an instance where SEB had misordered but Ally did not show it on the adjudication. I questioned SEB's integrity based on the fact the misorder was not shown. Later Ally agreed and displayed it on the adj. Went a long way in the trust factor between me and SEB. 2) For 2 seasons I had Roys Proxy. And for some reason the orders he sent in that were a copy of mine never made it to Ally, but he never specifically took away the proxy, therefore I thought my orders should stand. I think looking back I might have been wrong on the Proxy rule(you didn't hear that from me), but alas it didn't impact the game in the end.

The game started out as a blast. I remember Stephen as Russia playing a very strong game. I GMed him once and Remember him as a very loyal ally, and was eager to setup and alliance with him.

Key Points for the start

1. Stephen insisted on going north and hitting England, I kept trying to get him to focus on the south, because I thought I had good options with both France and England and was unsure what would happen. Russia was steadfast on going north, and this showed me that he was not that serious about forming an alliance with me. How can I work with someone who doesn't consider my interests? An alliance is a partnership, and Stephen was only interested in doing what he wanted. I was surprised really by this, as I thought it would turn out differently.

2. England and France started fighting right away, which was good for me, I hadn't chosen yet who I was going to work with. Both communicated really well and both were talking to me about tactics against the other. I was unsure if they were plotting against me, likely they were But I think I proved how I could be a good ally.

3. France forgetting Builds. Forgetting builds is a HUGE mistake, and to be honest… how can I choose him as an ally if I can trust him to make builds? At this point I hadn't chosen, and I went with Roy(England) after this. Sorry Rohan. With the uncertainties of the board, I needed a strong ally.

4. Austria playing an odd game with me. I asked him about attacking Russia, and he kept claiming he never got my email. I mean I went as far as sending my email to Ally and having him forward it over to Paul. Austria still kept saying "What email are you talking about" I wanted to scream at the top of my lungs. Unsure what game he was playing, hope he tells this on the EGS.

Mid/Endgame

1. It was clear that Myself, Roy and Seb were the major powers in the game. We got discussions going about going the 3 way draw. At this point I was good allies with both, and we worked hard to eliminate the others.

To

2. Too Solo or not to Solo?

I realize that I had a strong, probably 80% chance of soloing at the end. But I chose to go with the 3 way draw because of my strong alliances I had with SEB and Roy. We had incredible trust throughout the game and in the end I felt my loyalty was to each of them. Well done to each Seb and Roy for their outstanding play and for not holding grudges from game to game. Roy defeated me once before and Seb has fallen to my sword several times. Both are class acts.

3. James, I didn't get a whole lot of communication from you, I think you need to widen your scope and realize that there is more to the game of diplomacy than just talking to your neighbors.

Thanks again everyone and good luck in the future.

ITALY : Sebastian Egerton-Read
Ally, thank you very much for your GMing and efforts to make Moor an extremely smoothly run game! Italian EGS: I'm afraid that this EGS may be brief as I have been unable to find a suitable space of time to write about this game in depth, as a result I may well fail to do the game justice but I will try and describe things as much as possible from my point of view. Pre-spring: Starting the game, I knew of Stephen and had played against Brian many times, and Roy on a couple of occassions. Me and Brian talk outside of Diplomacy, I count him as a good friend and know very few nicer people. However, experience has also taught me that there are very few better players on the diplomacy board. I knew that whatever happened, Brian would almost certainly be a major factor in the game. It was interesting that my 3 neighbours F/A/T were all virtually unknown to me. I entered pre-spring diplomacy cautiously, I do not recall hearing a huge amount from anyone inparticular, though it was clear that Stephen was a very strong diplomat, immediately I felt that there was an A/R alliance and that Stephen inparticular was my first serious threat in the East. I didn't have much from Rohan and in pre-spring discussions with Brian, I strongly suspected that he would fall victim to E/G. I ended up simply ordering the regular Italian moves with a keen eye on how things would pan out. S01: S01 was not a bad turn for my Italy. Austria took Galicia(though I wasn't convinced that this didn't mean A/R), Russia moved a unit North meaning he wasn't totally committed in the South, meanwhile England moved to ENG to ensure that France would be pre-occupied. In the S01 negotiations, I didn't really manage to negotiate anything concrete with any power, I was concerned that Stephen may well have already secured strong relations with both A/T and I might not get a position of power cemented. Frustrated with my diplomacy I decided to take a chance and make a go a taking Trieste in the hope of stamping my authority in the Eastern corner and hopefully eliminating Austria quickly largely to my advantage. A01: A01 saw Austria and France fail to build and the game's fate was effectively sealed at that point. I seized Trieste to leave Austria with his back wide open and me with two builds, meanwhile France lost Brest and faced an ominous looking E/G alliance. After the turn I offered Paul co-operation and actually quite proudly manipulated A/R/T into all attacking one another, my one concern from A01 had been the Turkish F(Smy), which suggested A/R co-operation, I decided that from here assisting Austria was best to combat this and I agreed to support Paul into Bulgaria, not really expecting but hoping that he would do it. S02: S02 worked a treat. Russia got nowhere, Austria seized Bulgaria weakening Turkey but still leaving himself very very vulnerable. The only major concern was that it was very clear that E/G were going to completely eliminate F/R(North) very very quickly and therefore I needed to work increasingly quickly. I'm not exactly sure whether it was this turn or earlier or later, but I think about this time me and Brian first started talking about the end-game. The opening turns had started with cautious info exchange and advice between the two of us, neither quite trusting the other fully, but at some point the alliance really clicked and I committed to trusting Germany as my long-term ally. Still, I had to hope he would choose me over England if I was to get a result and certainly if I was to win!

A02: I had hoped to genuinely work with Paul. He seemed like a very pleasant person and I enjoyed my correspondance with him. However, with the E/G alliance bearing down on me, I basically decided that I would try and secure his quick elimination whilst using Turkey against Russia. Realistically I didn't know at this stage how long-term an alliance with Turkey would be, it depended on how I/G or even I/E panned out but I did decide he wasn't going to get Greece and betrayed him in the same turn as the alliance started, hoping I could talk him round the following turn. A02 really saw E/G/I pull away in the game, Russia was all but ready to topple in the North, Paul sadly NMR'd leaving him all but eliminated and France was also badly damaged. After A02, I had 7 centers, Roy had 6 and Brian had 8! The rate of growth was incredible and the game very quickly advanced! My biggest concern right now was E/G, whilst I kept telling R/T this, I also knew very clearly that I needed their centers to truly compete and I didn't want to be part of anything bigger than a 3-way draw, it was a fine balance. I needed an E/G war but forcing the split would prove difficult, E/I was almost a destined war and Brian seemed committed to his alliance with Roy.

S03-A03: I think it was at this point that there was significant discussion between me and Brian inparticular that suggested this would be a 3-way draw. The expansion of E/G/I continued to be huge, I can remember thinking that I needed to gain 2 or 3 centers a turn simply to keep up with the game, in 03 I did manage it. I had various negotiations with A/R/T, Stephen was inevitably going to be over-run by E/G and I clearly was reliant totally on Brian being either a) more focused on gaining F/R or b) being genuinely committed to I/G. From this point onwards I think I basically played for the 3-way, feeling confident that as long as I eliminated R/T quickly, I should be able to hold on so that I couldn't be excluded from the draw and neither Brian or Roy could solo. A fast breakdown of Turkey would prove critical.

S04-A05: This was basically the end-game. In reality, the 3-way result was a foregone conclusion. I believe there was a turn where Brian and Roy had tensions but it didn't last and I don't think Brian was willing to risk my soloing should he stab Roy. The game could have ended earlier but by the time A05 had come round, it was completely over, Brian had 12 centers, I had 11 and Roy 9 all by A05. The E/I war would have almost certainly been a stalemate, I felt confident that I had the 'throw Brian the game card' if Roy had attacked me.

All in all, the game took a fairly predictable route, dictated largely by the building failures of A/R in the opening turns. I don't think any of E/G/I could have soloed or been forced out of the draw. I have respect for both Roy and Brian as players and don't think any of us could have realistically done anything to reverse the steady progression towards an obvious result.

Paul (Austria)- Seemed a pretty decent diplomat, really made his own bed with the building failures and then made things even worse with an NMR. Would make a very good ally in a different set of circumstances I think.

Roy (England)- Not a huge amount of discussion between us this game, but basically played a faultless game, despite being committed to wars against F/R after S01. Picked a strong ally and was surpremely calculated in his elimination of France and Russia, well played.

Rohan (France)- Didn't hear much from. Very short writing style. Similar to Paul let down by the events of A01.

Brian (Germany)- Yet another excellently played game! Undoubtedly one of the very best players i've played with, an extremely dangerous player, he almost certainly dictated more events than any other player on the board, perhaps more than anyone else put together! Nice to finally finish as allies and on a level pegging with you, well played.

Stephen (Russia)- Opened strongly, became rather I and Brian's target diplomatically and never really got going in the North or South. Unlucky in some respects and both France and Austria may have been good allies had they been able to get footholds in the game. Still, a very good and tricky diplomat in my opinion, would hope to ally with in future games.

James (Turkey)- Limited discussions with James, had some good ideas. I did rather stab him badly on a few occassions. It wasn't as a result of not seeing the merits of I/T, simply I had a smaller draw in mind and played for it.

Ally (GM)- A very good job GMing. Only a couple of issues and largely efficiently dealt with, thank you very much for your time and effort Ally!

Thank you all and hope to meet again in the future!

Cheers, Seb.

RUSSIA : Stephen Custance-baker
Thanks are, as ever, due to our impeccable GM, without whom none of this would be possible.

This was definitely a disappointing game from my point-of-view. There was plenty of communication early on but it seemed to fizzle out after a while.

My first mistake was to let Austria into Gal. I had hoped that Paul would agree to keep Gal as a DMZ, but he didn’t trust me and moved in. That meant that I was tied down for 3 years with a permanent threat from Gal.

I tried to get Germany to join me but Brian wanted too many concessions (whilst accusing me of the same). I made a significant tactical error when I blocked England from Nwy; Roy offered some cooperation later, but I don’t think he ever forgave me.

My best chance seemed to be to join Italy and Turkey against Austria and then combine with one of them against the other but that backfired on me. I sent Paul an email with false promises and BCCd it to James so that he would know what was happening, but he didn’t realise that it was false and believed that I was allied to Austria. He then attacked me and I didn’t know why.

By this stage any possible game plan was ruined and I could see either G/E or G/I as the obvious results. I tried to get Roy to combine with me against Brian, but I was too weak in the south to offer anything really useful to him.

I was very glad when the EGP was agreed as I was on the point of fading out.

Thanks to all of you for an educational experience.

Stephen

TURKEY : James Gowar
First of all I would like to thank ally for adjudicating this game for us - As far as I could tell he did an absolutely perfect job. Next I would like to congratulate Seb,Roy and Brian on their 3 way draw.

The following is my account of the game from a Turkish point of view, based on my thoughts at the time

Spring 1901-

At the start of the game I made the standard (rather than anti-Russian) moves as I felt an alliance with Russia was a possibility, I also agreed the bounce with Russia in the Black Sea. Everyone seemed to be choosing sound openings. I had not made any moves that could be considered aggressive and I was fairly happy with the position. I had entered into negotiations with a few players. Russia and Italy spoke to me about a potential 3 way alliance, against Austria. I was fairly friendly to all my immediate neighbours but was happy to unite against Austria at that stage if the opportunity came.

Autumn 1901-

Italy moved into Trieste this Season and quickly got to 5 units with hopes of more later. Austria desperately needs to get his pieces back now that he has forgotten to build, he is completely powerless against Italy. I managed to get into the Black Sea and build an external Fleet. France, like Austria, forgot to build and has his Army potentially trapped in Portugal - it's a horrible position that can only encourage an E/G alliance.It also seems that Italy has the perfect start with his two nearest neighbours so weak. Hopefully Austria could pick things up and try and reorganise his position - it's in my interest that he does, so I start serious and detailed negotiations with Austria. There is also some talk about an alliance between some of the southern nations to fight off a possible E/G alliance. Italy and Russia also suggested ideas about how we could collectively work to destroy Austria. I was less keen because I knew most of the spoils would belong to Italy and I warned Austria early on about the inevitable attack and he did seem to take some notice. I told him that he had to try and get back into a reasonable defensive position with my help. One way or another, I knew Austria would not survive long I just wanted him to do it in a way that didn't give everything to Italy.

Spring 1902-

A terrible season. Austria decided that rather than defend his home supply centres he would attack me in Bulgaria! What have I ever done to him. That move was effectively just suicide! I had to disband the Army as it had no retreats, I could have simply supported it in Bulgaria and let it stand but I thought it is too unlikely Austria would make a move like that. I can almost certainly get Bulgaria back in the Autumn stage but now can't prevent Italy being the big winner this year. I now try to befriend Italy even though he must know he does not need me to finish of Austria - but I have some hopes that he may work with me anyway, although I suspect he may just want to ensure that I don't support Austria's Fleet in Greece My position isn't so bad though, as I see it when I move into Bulgaria Italy is going to be in either Serbia or Greece but he cannot realistically get into both. Also this Autumn season is a chance for Austria to take any builds he missed out on earlier in the game, if he retains any surplus supply centres. Italy, Germany and England are clearly shaping up to be the major powers - there is now clear evidence on the board of an E/G alliance.

Autumn 1902

This round I managed to retake Bulgaria as expected , but Italy managed to get both Serbia AND Greece because of Austria's NMR - I now wish I had ordered a build of a Smyrna Fleet (perhaps conditional on an Austrian NMR) rather than Ankara which I built as a gesture of non aggression to Italy. My hopes of working with Italy are now effectively over. What's more I am doomed if Italy becomes actively hostile. Austria's mistakes and illogical moves have cost me any hope of a reasonable position.

Spring 1903 and onwards

Italy forces himself into the Aegean and it is the beginning of the end for me. The game starts to fall apart for me at this point. Italy continues to make attacks on me from the Aegean and the Eastern Mediterranean Seas. I try and stay in the game in the hope of surviving until a draw is finally decided, offering and receiving support from Russia who has the same never say die approach as me. I am finally worked down to one remote piece in Ankara, when everyone agrees on the draw which I proposed (along with others no doubt). I never really got into any real position of power throughout the game. I still can't see the purpose of Austria's attack on Bulgaria. It still looks crazy however much I think about it. What's more I had never done anything to actually attack Austria, even in the e-mails we exchanged had been long and friendly with detailed and practical proposals to combat Italy. Moor was quite a disappointment. I never had any interesting positions or complicated options and these are the type of things that bring the games to life. Still a survive beats my elimination in my one other game on this site.

I had no problems at all with the sportsmanship and behaviour of any of the other players and would like to wish good luck to all for the future, I hope we may meet in various games to come.

Cheers, James Gowar