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COOLIE LOACH END-GAME STATEMENTS
GM:
Ally Bain [EGS]
Started: 8th March 2006
Finished: 16th July 2007
Result: Austria-Hungary/England/Turkey three-way draw
| Country | Player | 01 | 02 | 03 | 04 | 05 | 06 | 07 | 08 | 09 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | Result | | Austria | Andy Jamieson | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 9 | 8 | 9 | 9 | Draw | | England | Jim O'Neil | 4 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 3 | 5 | 8 | 9 | 12 | 13 | 15 | 16 | 17 | Draw | | France | Paul Lacey | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 7 | 8 | 5 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Anarchy | | Germany | Greg Jacobson | 5 | 7 | 8 | 10 | 7 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 2 | 1 | 0 | Anarchy | | Italy | James Douglas | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Eliminated | | Russia | Chris Groenewald | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Eliminated | | Turkey | Pablo Echevarria | 5 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 9 | 9 | 8 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 9 | 8 | 8 | Draw |
AUSTRIA (Andy Jamieson) Ally, EGS for Coolie for what its worth. Beats writing challenge documents for competition anyway.
afraid this EGS will be quite brief, since I have now turned 40 and my memory appears to have given up the ghost.
I had high hopes for Coolie. I was playing Austria, which is my favourite country, a real challenge but the potential to really expand in the late game if the opportunity arises. Most of all I like Austria because you are always in the thick of it at the start, usually fighting for your life. So my abiding memory of coolie is unfortunately infuriation, this was partly due to fate and the disappearance of Greg at a very unfortunate moment and partly due to people who not only dropped from the game leaving it in a hopeless mess but spent their time in the game driving me mad with their paranoia and short-termism.
The game started out with clear signals from Germany and Italy that some form of central alliance was on the cards. this was fine by me. I wrote Russia and turkey inviting both to join me in wiping the other out and if memory serves me (afraid I only have mails from 02 onwards) I got a positive response from Russia then nothing else to follow which alerted me to a possible Russian attack.
01 came in and horrified to see Italian move to tyrollia along with Russian bounce in gal, luckily it seems Turks have gone anti-Russian. This was the beginning of my desire to kill Italy at a very visceral level. he spent whole game not attacking me but making moves that paralysed me then talking about working together..he drove me insane. Communication in general was rubbish for most of the game. Greg was the exception and we had a reasonably detailed discussions throughout the game. So I remember tricking Russia into suiciding himself against turkey at which point I thought Pablo were going to form a decent alliance for the midgame but alas I had to wait another 9 years for that to develop. Shame really, I think we could have worked very well together. I am really interested to know what I did wrong that led him to believe he was better off trying to destroy me.
Ad things developed my position became very difficult, Greg was growing quickly but was still the only person on the board with direct influence over my position that I had any faith in (Jim spoke a lot of sense but was also a long way away). People urged me to turn on Greg but they didn't seem to see that while they were attacking me this was never going to happen. My view on Gregs position was that it was good but a long way from a solo, though I continually built him up in his ambitions to achieve one.
Sometime around the midgame I remember putting a huge amount of diplomatic effort into healing the rift between France and England in an effort to form a western defence against Germany. once they showed some fight I would turn on Greg and hope that turkey saw sense and gave me space to clip the German wings. all seemed well until the adjudication came through and France had used the opportunity to stab England. This was a low point, Jim was talking of dropping from the game, I was bound to Germany with no way out and the French, who really seemed pretty ignorant in most mails, was doing well. luckily (perhaps!) I persuaded Jim to fight on and I think we managed to reduce the French position (or did he nmr?) but things got a mite better and I resolved to be damned and make my peace with the Turks and turn on Greg..
This was things got bizarre, I stabbed Germany, Turks stabbed me, France dropped from the game suddenly giving England free reign in the west (and lots of units since he had the Italian and French proxy I think). So now there was a question of ethics, what to do? There is also a question of in-game vs. out of game ethics. so there are no ethics in game, anything goes and nothing should be frowned upon but when an event out of game fundamentally effects the position I.E. the strongest power drops for reasons beyond his control you must look to your real set of values not your Dip values. So I felt the game should be ended with a draw between all active players and Germany, to leave Greg out would be shameful, he played the best game upto that point and it was hard to see an outcome that would not include him if he had finished the game. So Jim agreed with me (from what I have seen) and pablo too yet it was turned down and Pablo continued the onslaught. My perception was that Pablo was taking advantage and therefore should be put down like the dog he was.. what was the reality? I would like to know.. Did Jim see his chance this far back or was he genuinely looking to serve vengeance on the Turks for not giving Greg the outcome he deserved?
Whatever the reality my intention from this point was to take a 2-way draw with Jim. I was well aware of the risk with England having free reign in the west and the Turkish nut by no means a soft one. truth is I have a great record of winkling out Turkish defences and I relished the opportunity to square up to Pablo, I always had one eye on Jim but he still caught me by surprise. In fact the season he stuck me I had been thinking after one more season I'm safe. the Turks were falling apart and I was preparing to withdraw troops to prevent any English double-dealing. so in that sense jims timing was perfect, though with hindsight maybe he should have waited a season. Who knows maybe if he'd stuck with the alliance I may have been tempted myself once the Turks were assimilated.
My initial view was that defence was hopeless, there was no way we could hold Germany with the majority of units in the south east and a game long enmity between me and turkey, however Pablo and I worked well, in fact very well to gain a stalemate.
In summary I will not lose sight of the winning post in future and to all you prospective alliance players be very wary of Jim, and to all you assassins don't expect me to lie down and die.
View of the players
Jim (England) Good player, look forward to fighting over Germany again someday
Pablo (turkey) My view of Pablo changed dramatically when I was actively working with him, I think perhaps his analytical nature grated somewhat with my sometimes airy fairy head in the clouds suggestions earlier in the game. Could do with being more communicative though and perhaps more long termist in strategy.
Greg (Germany) while he was in the game I got on well with him and he clearly knew what he was about, shame he had to drop really.
France; You were ignorant early on, then uncommunicative, then left
Italy; I really hope I never play a game with you again, your paranoia is beyond comprehension. Its a game..
Russia; Afraid I have no recollection of you really, That could be good or bad!
Finally thanks to Ally for running the game. It was a bit of a marathon with all sorts of hideous issues midgame which were dealt with excellently.
AndyReturn to Top
ENGLAND (Jim O'Neil) Ally,
Thanks for running the game. I know it takes a lot of time and effort and I really appreciate that.
I have some differences in opinion wrt your GM style and I have expressed it as honestly as I could and I hope, without causing offence.
I re-read my comments and I feel they were not balanced enough. I know you put a huge amount into diplomacy and my comments sound too much like criticism and not enough like a difference of opinion. I hope the latest (and last) set come across better.
Best Regards
Jim
End Game Statement – Coolie Loach – England/Jim O’Neil
Firstly thanks to Ally for running this game. I have some differences with Ally’s GM style which I will go into later. Thanks to all who took part, even those who fell by the wayside?
This was an unusual game in many respects. There were three phases and not necessarily Beginning, Middle and End.
The start of the game seemed normal enough. My aim as England was to prevent an FG alliance. Italy suggested that he and France attack Germany, to which I agreed. I knew that I would only come into the battle after the first few seasons and so I stayed sweet with Germany as well. Austria seemed cautious towards me but willing to share information. Turkey and Russia shared pleasantries.
The first Phase – France’s “experiment”
I became aware and somewhat frustrated that, despite my best efforts, France and Germany were beginning to make inroads and no matter what I did with threats and promises and tactics, it did not seem to change anything. France then confessed to running an “experiment” to teach his class about diplomacy. His “experiment” was to agree an alliance (in this case Germany) from the beginning and stick to that alliance no matter what – to show that such an agreement could create a 2way draw. This was an immense insult to the other 5 players and if he had not Anarchied, I would have suggested he was gray-listed. Not for the alliance but for treating a 7 player game as his “experiment”. It started to go wrong for him, when Germany claimed his “great position” was due to Germany’s great play and not the support of France. During this phase, Italy had had some RL issues and gave me his proxy. I had tried to use it to pincer France. I originally thought this action had pushed France and Germany together before I knew about the experiment.
The second phase - The proxy phase
I played the Italian proxy until my moves were left out by the GM. I had not read the fine print of this GM’s version of the proxy rule. It seems Ally only allows 2 years worth, no matter what.
Now I was down to 2 centres – then France felt guilty about his “experiment” and gave me his proxy and Germany was involved in a Real Life accident which meant he could not continue. Italy was still helping although Ally did not let the proxy continue. This meant that although I asked Italy to move, I could never be sure that he would. By this time Russia had gone out and Austria Turkey had started a series of attacks and cheats on each other which would last most of the rest of the game. I used the French proxy until it hit the “Ally” rule again. Once more I had to ask the proxy player (France) to submit moves on my behalf. He did so for a few seasons and then NMR’d and finally anarchied. I was still trying to recover a position from 2 dots and had built up a few good positional units, but with the loss of France, it was difficult to progress.
The Third phase - Playing for the solo.
France had anarchied, Germany had anarchied and there were many “dead” units all around me. Turkey had pointed out that one English unit could hold the centre because of the position of the “dead” French and German units. He said this to prevent a possible Austrian solo but is set the seeds for my own attempt.
It looked like I could hold the North easily as well with just 2 units, since the only active fleets outside of the med would be mine. If I could secure the Med, I may be able to hold the line and pick up the “dead centres” and make it to the solo. Turkey and Austria were still fighting – which I encouraged as much as I could. I started to pick up units and played as many as 3-4 moves in advance on the board to check my position. Turkey and Austria were evenly balanced and were sort of ignoring me, not seeing the true threat. Turkey then NMR’d at a vital point, giving Austria the edge. I was fearful of an Austrian solo if Turkey collapsed or even anarchied. I had to make my move. I started to take central units and sent my new units to strategic positions, rather than sudden expansion. Austria had a chance to go for Mar/Spa/Por at one point and I was struggling to find a way to stop that. As I pushed on and grew, Austria and Turkey continued to fight. Then, at some point, they started to co-operate and started to build defences against my expansion. I tried to weaken them by proposing an AE 2way EGP but Ally decided not to publish it. It was about the same time that Ally started to publish his news about stalemate lines and how many centres I needed. Well if they had not started to create a stalemate line, it sure helped them focus. Once Turkey and Austria got their play together, they played an excellent defence and stopped me at 17 centres. Well played.
I have a lot of respect for Ally and the time and effort he puts into diplomacy is immense. However, I am not keen on his strict interpretation of the proxy times allowed. I also did not think his reference to stalemate lines in A1911 was appropriate or neutral. My EGP of a 2way EA draw was meant to undermine Turkey and Austria’s relationship but Ally did not show it. It felt like Ally had decided the result before it was reached.
I am not interested in conflict and I don’t want a heated debate – I will just accept AB’s decisions and discuss them up front with AB in the future before commencing any games.
Jim O’NeilReturn to Top
TURKEY (Pablo Echevarria) The game starting not bad for Turkey, in the first turns shifting alliances from A to R as needed. But it soon came to light that Austria was going to be the main enemy in the East. I started growing fast, mostly at his and Russia's expense.
In 1905 we face a big trouble: Germany had to leave the game for personal reasons. I suggested the easiest way to "cancel" the game: a draw between all survivng powers. That could not be arranged, and I felt that ending the game with only some of the players included in the draw was not fair. So no draw agreed and Germany went into anarchy. That was no good news, since now Austria could use all his force against me.
Anyway, by 1906 I was on top of the board and slowly crushing Austria, Italy was down to 1 and F-E were fighting each other. Al I needed to the solo was take Austria and italy and a couple of Germany inactive SCs, and the best part was that the German units would really delay any help from the West to Austria. But then, I NMRed, and Austria stroke back. Andy did not let it pass, and started to advance on me.
France went into anarchy, and that left only 3 players on the board. I tried to make England (Jim) attack Austria, but he keep promising attacks that never came.
Then, it became obvious that they were allied and aimed at the 2-way draw. I refused that draw: As Turkey I could still hold for a long time with only 3 units, and sooner or later one of them should stab the other. Posibly England, since he would get bored in the back while Austria carried all the battle.
That finally happened, in 1910 England attacked Austria and that year he got 13 SC, with 4 more neutrals at his feet. We could send him away from ION, which secured Italy. So, Berlin was going to decide a solo or the 3-way. And to keep Ber, we needed Pru and Lvn or the domino would fall from the north. Jim managed to keep StP, but made no further advance there, and by Spring 1912 the stalemate was clearly settled. Still a few moves more in Pie and Tus, but no real changes in the position, and the end came...
This was my first real draw in Dip2000 (All previous were from tournament games) and I had to fight for it. I could have made it better, certainly, but also could have been worse. Congratulations to Jim and Andy for a great game and an exciting end to it.
And really thanks to Ally for taking care of this game, an outstanting GM, if I can say.
Hope to see you again, people!
PabloReturn to Top
GM (Ally Bain) The way in which I've displayed the EGS is different to those I've done in other games. Most players write a few opening lines which isn't their EGS, just stuff between them & I. In this game's EGS, I decided to show all the opening lines, as I wanted all to know that Jim is showing his own opinion & as a friendly person, he is making sure I do understand that he is not trying to upset me, etc. I, like many others, enjoy reading peoples opinions & often those do make one alter their thinking. Jim, as you can gather, I did enjoy reading your opinion but I'm not changing mine. :-)
Before I describe my reasoning, I'll first write about the game itself.
As you know, a GM doesn't have the right to vote but does have the right to finish a game if they feel the stalemate line has been created & any EGP are turned down. Before you wonder, this isn't about A13 in which I did finish the game but the cause of Greg leaving the game. To Greg, I hope you do get to read this & aren't upset by me mentioning it. I’m looking forward to soon hearing from you.
Sadly, I must have deleted the e-mail I received from one of Greg's friends but his Anarchy was caused by him receiving very serious injuries. I did therefore mention this to the players & asked whether they would wish to finish the game in a draw or continue. Like EGP, to continue the game, only one person has to vote, 'no' & in this, only one player said 'no' so the game continued. To me, I felt that was wrong as this is only a game & based on what happened to Greg, finish the game & put your name down on the Waiting List. Heck, this was simply a game & surely not that important to continue?
As written, I thought Coolie Loach shouldn't have continued but as it did; my next set of paragraphs doesn't have any relevance to that. In other words, a bit like another game that started in S06.
Regarding Paul Lacey (playing France), he was Grey-Listed. To others thinking that his initial view was wrong, I’m sorry but I can’t understand why that is the case. When all players enter a game, they decide their own plans & strategy. Communicating with other players means their plan stays the same or changes slightly or greatly. Just because their plan isn’t the same as yours is simply saying that Diplomacy has many alternatives & without them, this game wouldn’t be as good as it is.
Reading part of Andy’s EGS did make me laugh. Think again about who turned down the EGS. :-)
As a GM, you often don’t know what each player thinks of the others so all you can see is the map, once the adjudication has happened. In this game, I did know more than in other game I’ve GMd. When Jim did start his stab on Andy, I thought he was going to solo but I was amazed to see how quickly Andy & Pablo allied to stop Jim.
Moving onto my views on Jim’s opinion, I again mention that neither of us is trying to annoy the other. Actually it looks as though Jim is my captain in the Diplomacy World Cup as the pair of us is in the Scottish side. We better win. ;-)
Before going on, all please note that I’ve been involved with Diplomacy for over 20 years & during that time I’ve also GMd many games. In short, my knowledge comes from many years or should I say the number of games I’ve been playing & GMing for is many.
As for proxy, I simply can’t stand watching a player give their country to another country & that proxy lasts for the rest of the game. When playing in the usual seven-player game, I expect to play against the same seven until their or my involvement is eliminated.
To give an example of my dislike, this is two of them:
1) Two players are allied to each other & then the stab starts. The player being stabbed decides to give another player his or her proxy with the reason being the stab. Not only does that annoy me but also if the proxy last for the entire game.
2) Someone starts a game but within a few seasons, he or she decides to give up but before walking away, they give a proxy.
There are other reasons for disliking it but by using those two examples, me allowing only two-seasons means that the player in question must soon be back playing in the game. If the player has walked away, then that country must be in Anarchy & not proxy.
If you’re still unsure, ask yourself whether you would like to lose a game with the winner actually getting more than one proxy, e.g. Russia won but also did write the orders for Turkey & France.
Whether I wrote too much about stalemate lines, in A11, is to me, not the case. This is that I wrote in the synopsis:
“England now needs three SCs to win but where is the final one coming from”?
The Press was this:
“ALB: I've been asked to show EGP however the only EGP I'm going to show is, three-way draw between A/E/T. Remember to fail to vote = 'yes to the EGP'. In addition, remember that if I, as GM, feel that a stalemate line has been created & EGP get turned down, I'll finish the game with the appropriate EGP”.
The two EGP I didn’t show were E solo or A/E two-way draw. If you go back to the Gamestart, it states that:
“1. End Game Proposals (EGP) aren't allowed until after A05. After A05, any EGP must be a fair reflection on the state of the board when the EGP is presented. If it isn't, I'll not display it. When EGP are shown, players must submit together with their orders, etc, their vote. Failure to vote equals 'yes' to the EGP”.
By looking at the A11 map you’ll see that the only probably outcome was actually how the game did end, a three-way draw.
As for the GM finishing the game, that is also written in Dip2000 Houserules so I can’t see any problem me writing that in the Press. In addition, the orders did show the A/T alliance so obviously they knew a solo would happen if they didn’t ally.
Perhaps the final part is a bit that Jim wrote:
“It felt like Ally had decided the result before it was reached”.
Jim, the game finished in A13 & within your orders for that season you wrote this:
“The stalemate line is now in place. If the defence will get their moves accurate and in the right place I will concede that the stalemate line is indeed working”.
Moving on, you all know I do the stats & the Opening & Ending stats can be seen by clicking on this & then to the respect other links:
http://mysite.orange.co.uk/alb_gsb/diplomacy/stats/stats.htm
See you all on the boards.
AllyReturn to Top
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