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DISCUS END-GAME STATEMENTS
GM:
Ally Bain [EGS]
Started: 30th January 2003
Finished: 17th June 2003 (Autumn 1912)
Result: Italy won!
| Country | Player | 01 | 02 | 03 | 04 | 05 | 06 | 07 | 08 | 09 | 10 | 11 | 12 | Result | | Austria | doug friedman | 4 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Eliminated | | England | Christopher Wallden | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Anarchy | | France | Alex Belton | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 1 | Survived | | Germany | Simon Berry | 5 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 14 | Survived | | Italy | Stuart Bonnington | 3 | 4 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 14 | 18 | Won | | Russia | Mark Wegner | 5 | 5 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 2 | 1 | Survived | | Turkey | Andrew Smith | 4 | 5 | 6 | 8 | 6 | 5 | 5 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | Eliminated |
FRANCE (Alex Belton) The start:
It started so well, gaining 2 in the first turn and the channel at the start of the second.
I was even offered support by Italy into Munich, I wonder how it would have changed the game if I had taken that rather than Bel in A01.
After taking most of England I then discovered my problem...
The middle:
I was stuck at sea, I fought a gradual defense against Germany with the help of Italy supporting me (thanks again!)
The end:
After a time I managed to get my fleet to somewhere nice (Edinburgh) and behind German lines providing me with a means to stay afloat. Italy at this point had just taken 2 of my SC's and was in a position to take the final 2 needed to take themselves to the solo.
No offence to Germany, but as Germany attacked me and Italy had done nothing but support me up until S12 I felt I'd favour Italy in this scenario! So I played for a survival and Italian Solo, rather than Italian solo after Germany bested me in Edinburgh.
Thanks to Ally for playing, congrats to Italy for winning it and the rest of you guys for playing in it!
I had a lot of fun hope to play against you all again.
Alex Belton, French Fisherman (Yorkshire Fleet!)
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GERMANY (Simon Berry) 1901: I started with a neutral opening - intended to give maximum flexibility. While I was disappointed to see France open to Bur, the sight of French and English fleets bouncing in ENG balanced the very unwelcome presence of an Italian army in Tyr. In Autumn France did as expected and took Bel. The Italian attempt to support France into Mun was more surprising - why pick on me at this point? A taste of things to come. With England and France safely at war, and the threat to Mun gone, I decided to focus my efforts on Scandinavia. A point to note - Italy who would go on to win the game achieved zero builds in 1901 and actually looked worst placed.
1902: Having sat on the fence through 1901, I begin 1902 by throwing my lot in with England and support him to Bel. In Autumn, while I manage to force Bur, I am disappointed to see that England has spurned the hand of friendship and attacked me - in spite of having French fleets at his back door. Elsewhere Italy gets his first build and Turkey looks solid while Austria is in trouble and Russian forces are a bit scattered.
1903: I react in a very predictable manner to the English attack and evict him from Bel. Co-operation between England and Russia denies me Swe while France takes Edi. Italy builds two as Austria falls apart and Turkey makes progress against Russia.
1904: Accepting that France can, and probably will, evict me from Bur, I signal peaceful intentions by voluntarily withdrawing from Bur and make a token support order. I temporarily abandon my futile attempt to gain Swe and reposition to give myself a choice in the autumn of either attempting Nwy or Swe or trying to force the vital NTH. At year end I guess right and pick up Swe, while (worryingly) France occupies the crucial NTH. Austria is out with Italy and Turkey the beneficiaries - they look well balanced and I hope that they will remain so for many seasons. Russia is reduced to 3 SCs - oddly he disbands A(War) and keeps the annoying and defensively useless F(BAL) which would severely limit my options the following year and, in what would later emerge as a race to 18, effectively delay my expansion by two seasons resulting in Italy getting to MAO before me.
1905: I pick up Nwy and resume hostilities with France as England is reduced to two SCs. Elsewhere Italy looks to be gaining the upper hand over Turkey and is in position to make more rapid progress than I will in the next two years - a direct consequence of Russia's choice of disband in 1904.
1906: In many ways a critical season. While I make positional progress against some rather gritty France defence, Italy is doing materially better against the Turkish forces and I start to think less about my own prospects and more about Italy's - still there is a long way to go for either of us.
1907: I crack the French defences and finish the year in position to make further gains in 1908. Italy does likewise, although he has to deal with a rogue Turkish fleet behind his lines. Italy and I occupy Tyr and Boh respectively. Russia manages a comeback and gains a build.
1908: Things look to have changed. Italy's progress is slowed against the Turkish defence and Russian resurgence. England goes into anarchy - at this stage of the game the English anarchy was of no real consequence. The fact that the last English unit was occupying Lpl rather than a non-SC was inconvenient but not material. At year end, my biggest concern is that Italy is now free to send fleets west and should get to MAO before me - crucial for the control of Iberia and Mar where I expect the game will be decided. Game leadership has again swung in Italy's favour where it will remain for the rest of the game.
1909: While I make solid gains - in fact I have 12 SCs to Italy's 11 - the crucial difference is that Italy is in position to get a unit over the stalemate line and is well placed to pick up additional gains from Turkey and France.
1910: While I pick up StP in Spring, I realise (perhaps too late) that with Italy in MAO co-operation with the resilient Russian may be a better strategy if an Italian victory is to be denied. Too late.
1911: France is still working with Italy and I am surprised at this. If the French player had attempted to occupy Por he could easily have created a situation where neither myself nor Italy could dislodge his unit without the co-operation of the other - something that could never happen without throwing the game away. (See Rahl for an example of where this has happened before.) The French fleet behind my lines was more of a nuisance than a real factor in the final result. I'm ordering support for France at this point - without French co-operation Italy should win and I expect him to turn on France at any time.
1912: While I can take Mos I decline at this stage - eliminating Russia when Italy should win is as pointless as gaining an additional SC. In Spring Italy does as expected and turns on France. In Autumn it will take a lucky guess and some French co-operation to stop Italy from winning. The only way to stop the final result at this stage was to take Por from Italy. There were two choices (i) I support French F(Spa nc) - Por or (ii) France supports my F(MAO) - Por. Given the inevitability of any support from French F(Spa nc) being cut, I opted to support France to Por. There were, of course, a few other permutations but this seemed to be the only realistic chance of stopping the Italian march to victory and I was hopeful that France would reach the same rather obvious conclusion. Given the Italian orders for 1912A, If France had ordered F(Spa nc) - Por, the move would have succeeded and Italy would have been stopped at 17 resulting in a draw (which would have included France). Needless to say, I was completely mystified at the French orders for the final season. Taking into account not only the necessity of trying to stop Italy, but also the Italian attack on France in Spring and the supports I had ordered for the last few seasons, the French order of F(Spa nc) - MAO came as a severe disappointment.
Final thoughts. While I felt that the game should have ended in a draw, Italy played a fantastic game to recover from what appeared to be a rather weak start and had to overcome both a strong Turkey and a resilient Russia to achieve victory. France deserves credit for putting up a tough defence but just failed to realise what needed to be done to stop Italy and get a share of a draw.
Thanks of course to Ally for his high standard of GMing - fast and friendly adjudications every season.
Cheers
Simon
(Germany)Return to Top
ITALY (Stuart Bonnington) Strategy
Due to the fact I had never played on the Internet before Discus, I was happy with being drawn Italy. I felt it offered me the opportunity to 'ease' myself in, learn the syntax, the 2 move years etc.
My main strategy, as it is always for me with Italy, was two pronged: a) to gain security in Northern Italy, and b) control the Med. On reflection, this served me well.
Opening
I opened with A(Ven) - Tyr, A(Rom) - Ven, but Austria Hedgehogged, and it took a while to finally get my Roman army moved.
My Autumn 1901 move was probably the key to the whole game for me. I recognized immediately that to have any chance of being in the end-game, I needed to have an ally, a neighbour who would leave me alone, and look the other way, and I chose France. Thus, A(Tyr) S FRENCH A(Bur) - Mun sealed my long-term future in the game. I have to admit, I owe France a bier, as he without doubt is a true gent, and someone I would like to play alongside in a non-gunboat game. The way he died on his sword at the end, for me, was explicit.
Completely by luck, Autumn 1901 also had my first, and easily the least damaging, of my 2 major errors in the game. My misorder, and thus not taking Tunis in 1901, meant that I scrapped all thought of a LePanto, and made me look an idiot to everyone else. I am sure Germany or Turkey must have looked at that and thought 'novice'. Actually, I lost nothing by it, but time, but this served me well in the end.
Mid-Game
The next key move for me was Spring 1904 when I chose, to Russia's complete surprise I assumed at the time, to take Budapest; this rather than consolidate my position in Austria and move south. What with Austria in Warsaw, Russia took a while to come back from that, and it removed a major threat. Meanwhile, France, Germany and England were keeping themselves amused in the West.
And thus the major threat to my two point plan was Turkey, and the beginning of the great 7 year Southeast European war. I look back at Autumn 1904 now with a quizzical look, and am fascinated as to why Turkey did not boot me out of EMS when they could have done. Although Greece is key, 3 fleets in AEG, Con, and EMS are practically imprenetrable. But, fortunately for me, he went for Greece.
Then came my 2nd major error: not ordering a fleet in Naples build, when Turkey pushed me out of EMS. Fortunately, I was winning in the Balkans by then, and Turkey could not build to make up for this gain. But this put me back 18mo by my estimate. At this point, it felt like an absolute age to crack Turkey's last line of defence. Russia was regaining strength, and Germany was driving deep into France. I actually felt I was taking too long, and I nearly did. I also had the annoyance of a stray Turkish fleet, which I managed to outguess on a number of occasions, but was stopping me going and supporting my ally France.
Without a shadow of a doubt, the turning move of the game, for me, was Spring 1909. Three major things occurred. Firstly, and most importantly, Germany, who had the lead up until this point, must have misordered, and A(Bur) stood. This meant that France could hang on until I could get my fleet in MAO for support. Secondly, I broke through into Constantinople, and with the stray fleet gone, the great Southeast European war was effectively over. After many to-ing and fro-ing, I had nailed him. (I must admit never in my experience of Diplomacy had I spent so many sleepless hours trying to guess someone else's moves. So hats off to you Turkey for such a great fight!) Thirdly, and crucial to the end-game, I moved my Albanian army to Trieste, and set up 'The Wall' which was going to last me until the end of the game.
Fortunately for me, Germany made more errors than I did. The biggest without a doubt though was to take St.P at the first opportunity, thus turning the Russians against him immediately, whilst he still had four pieces. It was a stab, but not a killer stab, and thus probably cost Germany the game.
End-Game
I had worked out early that if I could get to Sevastopol, I would need Mar, Spa and Por for the win. Thus, in Spring 1910, I crucially got my fleet into MAO. Once I was there, I was convinced of victory. Multiple French supports later, I was in a position for 'Le Stab Finale'. But before that, there was time, in Spring 1911, for the biggest laugh of the game, namely FRENCH F(NAO) - Clyde!
So, other than a stray German army in Galicia, I managed to go the whole game without attacking my main rival for victory: even up until the end.
Conclusions
I would like to thank Turkey for our dual, Russia for hanging in there and making it interesting even when any hope of winning had gone, Germany for never attacking me, Ally for being outstanding a GM, but most of all to France, for being a loyal ally and a true gentelman, even up until the last move to give me victory. Vive la France!
My only gripe, and I think it is a fair one, is that a 24 move game took from January to June, and where we could have turned some of the moves around in 48 hours, we were taking a week. I think I can guess das kulprit, but I will keep it to myself ;-)
Cheers
StuartReturn to Top
TURKEY (Andrew Smith) Thanks very much for playing, I had alot of fun despite the beating. Special thanks to Ally for GMing. This was my first experience of gunboat and I discovered a range of tactical flaws in my play.
Starting out as Turkey I went for the simple things, Black Sea and Bulgaria. Unfortunately in the autumn I bounced with Austria over Greece but one build wasn't too bad. Elsewhere Italy and England had started badly.
By the end of 1903 I had established a nice defensive position with plenty of potential for expansion. Italy was under my skin and Austria had been swallowed up by Russia and Italy leaving Italy as my best prepared enemy. My future tactics were designed to defeat Italy before cleaning up the southern section.
During the next two years Austria was cleaned up and Italys greater number of armies was brought to bare on my forces. The fleet in eastern med was still causing me lots of trouble. In the Autumn of 1905 I made my first mistake and instead of disbanding my retreating army I moved it to Ukraine. Germany and France now dominated the north.
Autumn 1906: My worst mistake was made as I broke my fleet defense by over advancing into the Tyranian Sea. Soon I had one fleet stuck in the western med while Italy attacked my soft belly. France and Germany were now fighting it out for control of the north and my only hope was assistance from one of them.
Italy proved very effective in squeezing me out and made good tactical calls to the end of the game. The one fleet to support France was a master stroke and set the scene for the win. Congratulations to Italy.
Andrew SmithReturn to Top
GM (Ally Bain) It was very enjoyable reading your EGS for one of many reasons.
One of the comments Simon made reminded me of a book I read about 20 years ago. In that book it makes a very interesting point. If in A01 you gain three SCs, the other countries will be looking at you, often not in a friendly way. It said more or less the same with two gained SC & then said that just gaining one, might be a best gain. One thing it didn't say was Stuart's nil gain!
Regarding comments from near enough all of you about mis-takes, well I can't hid. If you look at Sieben, I made big errors on S05. BTW Andy Scott is the GM.
In relation to Alex's final moves & his comment together with Simon being surprised & Stuart being happy, there is a factor you ought to remember not only in Gunboat but games in general. People/players have a different view to each other. One of the reasons Diplomacy is great is that we have to find out the other players reasoning & in Gunboat, it's very difficult to find out.
As for the time between adj, yes I think it would have been better if the adj were faster BUT this game was a brilliant game & always worth remembering. I know the credit goes to Stuart for winning but equally those of you playing.
See you around the boards.
AllyReturn to Top
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