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MOLLY END-GAME STATEMENTS
GM:
Ally Bain [EGS]
Started: 5th October 2002
Finished: 23rd January 2003 (Autumn 1906)
Result: Austria/England/France/Germany/Italy draw
| Country | Player | 01 | 02 | 03 | 04 | 05 | 06 | Result | | Austria | Stuart Egerton-Read | 5 | 6 | 8 | 9 | 11 | 12 | Draw | | England | Andrew Rae | 4 | 4 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Draw | | France | Jeff Grzybowski | 5 | 5 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 5 | Draw | | Germany | Simon Prebble | 5 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 6 | 6 | Draw | | Italy | Steve Smith | 4 | 4 | 4 | 6 | 5 | 5 | Draw | | Russia | Andy Scott | 6 | 6 | 5 | 3 | 1 | 0 | Eliminated | | Turkey | Justin Shadbolt | 4 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 1 | 0 | Eliminated |
AUSTRIA (Stuart Egerton-Read) Austria lives or dies by its diplomacy, and I believe that Austria is the true test of a Diplomacy player. Early elimination is usually the result of poor diplomacy and survival into the middle game is the outcome of a successful diplomatic effort in the early stages of the game.
Austria shares borders with four other powers, and my early diplomatic initiatives were aimed at identifying friends and enemies. Vienna's relationship with Rome is, in my opinion, of critical importance. Steve wasn't terribly communicative, but he gave me certain assurances and I decided to rely on them. The alternative would have been to throw my lot in with Turkey, but from Justin's early messages I formed the impression that he was working closely with Russia.
I resolved upon a strategy of eastward expansion. Steve had indicated that he'd try to make gains in the Western Mediterranean. This idea generally meets with little success, but I didn't discourage Steve from pursuing it as it suited me if Italy became embroiled in a war of attrition with France. I was going to concentrate my forces against Turkey and Russia and I wanted to by as sure as I could that Italy wouldn't move against me.
I invested much of my early diplomatic effort in trying to persuade Simon of the importance of an active alliance between Austria and Germany, particularly in relation to an attempt by Russia to expand its western borders. Simon embraced the idea with some enthusiasm and we were later to cooperate well with each other.
I arranged the standard bounce with Russia in Galicia in S01, and make some vague promises to Turkey that I'd allow him to occupy Greece when I had no intention of doing so whatsoever. In A01, I violated a DMZ agreement with Russia in Galicia and also annexed Greece. This was a risky strategy as it could have forced Russia and Turkey closer together, but, by building a fleet in Sevastopol, it was clear that Andy had designs on Turkish territory. I had established a presence in the critically important province of Galicia and felt that I now had a degree of control over the future of events in the Balkans.
I managed to convince Moscow that the occupation of Galicia was defensive in nature. In reality, Russia's options were limited. He couldn't dislodge the army from Galicia and, if his planned attack on Turkey was to be successful, he needed Austrian support.
Over the next couple of turns, I moved quietly and was careful not to further offend Russia. But Russia and France were threatening annihilate England and I set about establishing an anti-Russian alliance. Andrew didn't need to be convinced, Steve was already on the verge of war with France and Germany came to see that he could make gains at the expense of both Russia and France. Germany took both Belgium and Sweden, England was saved, and Russia's demise was set in motion.
In 1903, I launched a major offensive against Russia and Turkey and quickly became the dominant power in the Balkans. To my amusement and surprise, Turkey and Russia continued to squabble, and with Italian help I was able to subdue Turkey. By his own admission, Andy did not defend particularly well in this game.
In spite of the success of my campaign against Russia and Turkey, I had no desire to go for a solo. Steve and Simon had proved themselves to be reliable allies and I envisaged the outcome of the game as a three-way draw. But at this stage of the game, Simon fell under the influence of Grizzy and began to question my intentions. I could see the 'stab' coming and was able to deal with it quite easily, but I lost momentum and some sound defence from Simon produced an impasse.
Having unfolded an extremely successful strategy, I'm disappointed with the result of Molly, but I should like to thank my adversaries for an interesting and enjoyable game. I could have attacked Italy, but I chose not to: Steve was steadfast in his commitment to our alliance, and deserved to feature in the endgame.
Rumours have been circulating that Steve and I are 'drinking partners'. I don't know where they came from, and I vigorously deny them. Steve refused to join the anti-Austrian alliance and I declined to 'stab' someone who supported me throughout the game. That is a measure of the accord which we struck up during the game and most definitely not the consequence of some pre-determined alliance born in an 'outside' friendship.
Thanks to Ally for his efficient stewardship.
Stuart (Italy)
Stuart, where you not Austria rather than Italy? Ally ;-)Return to Top
ENGLAND (Andrew Rae) Tidy and efficient game Ally, I think a few of the CAT GM's could take a little lesson, but a nice performance and a relatively quick game, nice effort, thanks Ally.
Interesting game, and I was happy to see that I came out with something of a result at least. There is some satisfaction in seeing a result in what would seem an impossible situation, but I laregly give the credit for my result to Jeff for getting it done.
My opening was safe and conservative, as usual unfortunately Jeff decided to try something new and stabbed me in the channel turn one. This was followed by a second northern russian fleet and then a German stab in turn 3. I didn't think my diplomacy was that bad to be assaulted by three players but perhaps there are significant opening adjustments I need to make to my diplomacy. I'm sure you guys will tell me.
From there it was just a frustrating game trying to get on the same page as everyone else. Ironically I wanted to open EFG and in the end it worked out that way although with significantly less centres than we might otherwise have achieved.
As a side note, it was a little dissapointing finding out that Italy and Austria were drinking buddies and never had any intention of figthing each other (if this is the case , I apologise otherwise). That sort of situation means the game is not a level playing field especially if the other players don't know about the history. It's not a malicious act to play a game and basically have an understanding before the game, but it does not give the other players an even chance in the game. I was also a little dissapointed in the level of diplomacy offered by Italy but that makes a little more sense in context of the game conditions. Still I play diplomacy for teh diplomacy and felt a little cheated not having a real chance at influencing Steve.
There was some good diplomacy there though. I give credit to Stuart for managing the western powers in the early game and honestly I felt he had a really good shot at a solo had he moved about two years ago. Jeff gets my kudos for doing what was neccessary, there are keys to every player and he found mine in the nick of time and had the guts to follow it through. And well done to Simon for getting a result in one of his first games and Steve for getting a result also. Italy can be difficult to come out of with a minor draw. Andy was fully entertaining and I enjoyed his diplomacy emmencly and bad luck to Justin who looked like he was on a hindig to nothing in this one.
Thanks all
AndrewReturn to Top
FRANCE (Jeff Grzybowski) Thank you Ally for GM'ing another game for me. Wonderful it was not! Extremely frustrating it was! Neither of these two comments should reflect Ally's GM'ing though because as always he was an extremely efficient and time oriented GM. The only people I knew from the start of this game were Ally who GM'd me twice already and played against me in one game, "Dwarf
Gourami" and a gunboat game "Guppy" and played me in "Urusai". I also knew Andy from playing against him in "Dwarf Gourami" and I somewhat knew Simon at the start of this game as he was GM'ing me in another gunboat game "Creator".
Game Plan:
I first began my negotiations with Si, and had originally agreed to an onslaught on England. I also negotiated with Andy to get him to try and keep England out of Scandinavia by encouraging him to work with Si. I also proceeded to arrange a DMZ of ENG with England which I promptly broke...:-) I thought things were still cool with Si, boy was I ever wrong. I don't know what happened or if I was always his intended target but when I made a move to take one England, Si proceeded to march right into France...ouch. I was in a hot spot as Italy was moving in on my southern coast at the same time. I did some fast negotiating with Andrew and told him it must have been some mistake for him to find peaceful French fishing boats sailing around the IRI and ENG...hehe. He readily agreed, and to further help me out of this jam I found myself in I offered him Bel to which he accepted.
While all of this was happening it looked clear to me that the A/I alliance was unbreakable as they had just demoralised R/T and Italy was still a pest on my southern coast. I think around this time Stuart was on 9 or 10 dots and threatening Turkey with elimination. What I saw in effect was EXACTLY the same tactic I did in "Dwarf Gourami", obviously with slightly different
moves, but they had the same alliance that I did. So, I went to this with Si and Andrew because I was sure at the time that Stuart was going to solo if we didn't get our act together and draw up a stalemate line, which was something E/F/G didn't do in "Dwarf Gourami". After numerous emails and MSN sessions with Si, he finally agreed. I think part of why he agreed so readily was the fact that I had just supported Andrew into one of HIS centers (Bel) and realised that Andrew, Si, and I would just go back and
forth this way until Austria won. However, we didn't know this at the time, but Steve and Stuart were really in an unbreakable alliance as they were friends on the outside world. The ONLY reason why I bring this up is the fact that a couple people are in disagreement with this arrangement. I on the contrary am not against it, I would be against it IF they did it in every game they ever played together or if they came into this game with a prearranged alliance which I suspect may be the case, but that is neither
here nor there. I also disagree with the fact that some *think* the two of them should have announced it....that is like saying "here we are, come and get us." It would have made us all play differently and I am sorry that Andy/Justin were the brunt of their alliance, but I don't see any rules broken. But I would caution Steve and Stuart to not do that in every game they play in because you will immediately be marked targets....eeerrrr, similar to Tim Sweeney and myself....however he and I never have really allied as of yet....hehe!
I am happy with achieving a part of the 5-way draw and am REALLY happy with Si and Andrew for making it possible with me. Without each one of us pulling our weight, we never would have pulled it off.
Cheers,
JeffReturn to Top
GERMANY (Simon Prebble) Right where to start? I guess it has to be by thanking Ally for such an excellently run game. Adjudications prompt and correct, witty comments and abuse, what more can one ask of a GM? (Except for a copy of Austria's orders)
I started this game with everybody being nice to me. I was not used to this. So, I wrote back at them. This led to a number of interesting conversations and alliances starting to form. Apparently everybody apart from Turkey wanted me on their side!
Alliance 1
Germany France Russia against England
Alliance 2
Germany Austria Italy to the end.
Well, this is where the hard choices came in. I went along with both at this point. I agreed the DMZ's with Austria, and the attack on England was formed. I remember writing madly to both England and France trying to convince them both that the other was going to ENG. This convinced Grizzy, but not Andrew. However, Andrew realised after s01 that of course, I was right. I think Jeff had little choice at this point, to loose a season and back down out of the ENG would have been to damaging.
Andy moved to Nwy and gained the build. I seem to remember not liking the tone in one of his mails so Supported Andrew in instead.
The game continued, Russia shrank, as did Turkey. Italy was reasonably silent! More like playing a ghost. Austria grew. Andy and Jeff were busy trying to convince me that Stuart was about to turn on me. They finally got through to me as Stuart gained an
excellent position for the stab. I did not have a good position, so you can't really call it a stab, more like a slight tickle with a feather.
Stuart didn't seem to upset by this, so I took that as conformation he was about to do the dirty anyway. I think our alliance could have worked well. For this to have happened, he would have to have not flanked me, and kept at a reasonable build rate. However, the pressure built, and I snapped.
Grizzy was the one to salvage this game. He proposed the stalemate line. Unfortunately this meant cutting Russia loose. Sorry Andy, but 3 countries for the line was almost to hard as it was. England moved in and took Russia's final few Centres.
The draw was set. Everybody was in agreement. Then England stabs? You what? What were you thinking? You could do no better than the draw, but you could lose the game for us. Jeff's sharp talking convinced me to stick to it. After 2 seasons of England miss ordering, I was set to really upset the balance of the game in a protest, by proxying to Stuart. I was so upset at
Andrews, miss formed thinking that I would have preferred to see an Austrian Solo. However, Grizzy saved the day again. Convinced me to give him one last chance (his fourth) and Andrew managed to put the right orders in. The line was formed.
Chatting to Stuart with Grizzy it was found out that both Austria and Italy were drinking buddies, and there was no way that Stuart would stab Italy. This I felt to be out of order. If this had been declared at the beginning of the game, alliances would have been formed differently, and the outcome might have been of more interest than a 5 way draw. Not saying that friends shouldn't play in the same game, but maybe s01 would have been a more polite time to let it slip rather than s06.
All in all a disappointing game, even if it was my first finish in a game ever!
Austria - Well played, tight game, you could have had the Solo or the 3 way, it was up to you.
England - Less said the best, Your orders were wrong, your mails to me were inconsistent, you were hard to diplome with. But an all round nice guy! ;o)
France - You saved the day. You didn't stab me, and I let you into Ruh. What the hell was I thinking?
Italy - A little conversation wouldn't go amiss
Russia - Andy, sorry mate. Someone had to cop it, and you were that someone. Remind me of it next time, and I will support you instead.
Turkey - Did we ever exchange mails?
Last of all, another thank you to Ally, must have been hard GMing a game with 3 GM's in it!
Regards,
Simon.Return to Top
ITALY (Steve Smith) Well fristly thanks every one for the game, this is my 4th game and i have never managed to finish a game before.
At the beginning of the game i was asked by austria to form an allainace with himself and germany, to make a three way draw, i have played italy, germany and austria before and found that for italy and austria to last and gain there have to tursted each other,this is what i chose to do in this game.austria did work very hard to make the allanice between the three of us work which i feel it did untill later in the game.
I was approced by other counties to attack austria, but chose not to do this because if i did austria would have turn his full attention on myself
I was playing one other game and did find it harder to play two games than i through it would, also i do play Dip in my own way,as i said to a number of players in the game.
For myself i manged to finish the game which was my main aim, thanks for the game,
steveReturn to Top
RUSSIA (Andy Scott) First of all a big thank you to Ally for his normal outstanding work as GM :-)))
When the game started I had high hopes for an outstanding game, I already knew Grizzy from playing him before and the same with Stuart. Although I knew Si through him GM'ing me I had never played him. Meanwhile Andrew, Steve and Justin were unknown contingencies!
Things started well with excellent comms with Germany and Austria so I started thinking of a 3-way alliance. Justin also responded well but that left me with no enemy in the South against which to advance. I communicated a fair bit with both Andrew and Grizzy as well but I only received a single e-mail from Steve that was less than 20 words and to be frank said nothing apart from hello!!!
The adjudication came and went with me getting the 2 bounces I wanted in Gal and BLA while moving A Mos-Ukr in preparation for taking Rum.
The idea of the 3-way continued to grow and Stuart and I agreed a DMZ in Gal. In the Autumn adjudication though things went a little wrong when Stuart calmly walked into Gal ignoring our DMZ. Well ok that's not too big an issue and I was blinded by the thoughts of a 3-way so with my two builds from Rum and Swe I built F StP(nc) and F Sev. Damn idiot that I am!!!!
1902.
On the diplomatic side of things I was under the impression that Austria was repentant and things were strong with Austria. Relations with England went downhill with the arrival of F StP(nc) understandably but Turkey seemed remarkably unphased by the new F Sev??? With the adjudication came disaster!! Germany and that great ponce Si had stabbed me for Swe!!! But he hadn't moved A Ber?? Austria also just stood and waited. At the time I didn't pay any attention because Si had a second fleet in the BAL and I was convinced I was about to get a convoy into one of my Northern regions, probably Liv!!! In the Autumn things got worse as I made my second mistake by stabbing Justin by taking Ank. My only excuse was my wanting to replace Swe but in hindsight of course I played right into the hands of Austria and Germany as it meant I kept my 4 fleets and crippled the threat of Italy to Austria . As for Italy I had still heard bugger all!!!
1903.
It seemed to start off better as an apologetic Si helped me into Nwy from Swe although Austria pushed me out of Rum :-(((
Relations with Turkey seemed to improve though and I was less concerned with Germany as he turned on France with Italian aid.
The Autumn however was a different story with Austria relieving me of the burden to administrate Sev and he also by this point stopped talking along with his "pal" Italy. By the way has anybody told Steve this isn't a gunboat game?
1904.
In the spring I took Con with Turkey's blessing so he could shuffle his army around to Ank and hence Armenia. Justin turned out to be a stand up guy and a good ally. Sorry I treated you so badly Justin you deserved better! Austria pushed into Ukr and the writing was on the wall. In the Autumn some bugger read it too me as well!!! I lost Mos, War and Con ending the year with 3 units A StP, F Nwy and F Smy. F Smy????? Italy, Italy who?
I won't bore you with the rest just suffice it to say that by 1906 I was out and shamefully glad that it was over :-(((
In summation I can't say I enjoyed this game terribly much but that was down to main factors one I played very poorly in my opinion and that always irritates me. The second thing that was winding me up (as you might of guessed) was Italy's Silence.
What is the point of playing a game of dip if your not going to talk to people? Unless of course it's Gunboat.
Then I hear news which explains everything, apparently Steve and Stuart are best buds and drinking partners. So in other words you guys outside of the influence of the game decided that Austria was going to win! Lets face it I don't think Italy made a move that could be said to be selfish, he passed up 2 golden opportunities to stab Austria that would have put Stuart out of the game. Even in attacking France he did it more to slow Grizzy down and let Stuart build up Austrian power then for any benefit. Sorry guys but to me and I recognise this is a personal opinion but cartels of this nature are cheating. You never even bothered talking to me or to others Steve so to my mind you can't even be said to have played the game. Stuart I'm surprised at you as I considered you to be a much better player than somebody who needs to resort to such tactics. I know the purpose is to play a game with friends but the rest of us declared in our opening statements who we already knew but you two neglected to mention each other. And to be fair there is no requirement for you to do so either. I imagine this sounds like sour grapes to some people reading this, don't get me wrong I don't think it would have made any difference to my outcome as I played crap as previously stated. However I do like to start the game from a level playing field not up steep gradient. Any way enough of this as it's irritating me just thinking about it.
I will finish by saying congratulations to the people that forced this in to a 5-way draw when it should have been an Austrian Solo as he started with 6 units and the rest of us only knew about 3. Oops I started again! Sorry.
Catch you all in other games.
AndyReturn to Top
TURKEY (Justin Shadbolt) That was my third game and first where no one dropped out, was enjoyable to play where there were no NMR’s. I think the end result was likely after the quick Austrian build up, if E/F/G hadn’t united when they did it could have been a disaster.
Initially I was hoping for a strong alliance with Russia, Andy was an excellent diplomat and was never left without to much doubt as to where the land lied. I think Austria felt he had stabbed me, I guess he did, but I was on the back foot with Austria from the opening. Russia and I both became easy targets for Austria, which I think was partly our fault as we never formed a real plan to stop Austria. By the time Russia and I got our act together it was too late, also it was obvious Germany would not weigh in as E/F/G seemed at the time to be having teething troubles as to who was going to do what.
I had hoped to attack Italy first with Austrian help and had mentioned this to Austria very early on. I guess if England’s comments are true and they are drinking buddies, then I guess I had signed my death warrant early in the piece.
Italy showed no signs at even attempting diplomacy and this I know was reflected in other countries comments, Italy was in my opinion just a mere extension of Austria and did what was asked for by Austria. All countries bar Italy were open to diplomacy and this was appreciated.
Austria I think was the moral winner of this game, well done Stuart, we might have been enemies but I think you played a very very great opening game.
Thanks all and hope we will meet again to do battle at some stage.
Cheers
Justin of TurkeyReturn to Top
GM (Ally Bain) By now, you've might have read the EGS from some players. The following is MY opinion not Dip2000 site's opinion.
I became aware of the friendship between Stuart & Steve just prior to the game ending. Do I think the pair shouldn't have played in this game? The answer is 'no'. Do I think they should tell other players about their friendship? The answer is 'no'.
If you dis-agree with my thoughts, then let me suggest this to you. Take the game called Forgotten Sons. Jeff Simard & I hadn't met prior to the game however from 1902 until the end, he & I were allies & we got a 2-way draw. He was Austria & I, Russia.
I know you might say, 'Well, you two didn't know each other'. Yes, that is right but we never stabbed each other so is that any different to Stuart & Steve approach to this game? Forget the fact they are good friends, the position of their moves were not to stab the other. No different to Jeff & I. Granted, he & I did look at stabbing the other however we never did.
If you are still unsure, I'll put a sentence that is written on page one of the rulebook, which has in the board game I bought about twenty years ago. It says, 'Combinations & agreements amongst the players may affect the course of the game a great deal'. I again don't see any problem that Stuart & Steve.
Regarding the comment about telling players about your friendship. Page one of the same rulebooks says, 'A player may say anything he wishes'. I think that answers my comment about them not telling you about their friendship.
One comment I'll say to Steve & Stuart. Your names are shown in this EGS & many players might read it. If you both decide to register for another game, i.e. the pair of you in the same game, other players may have read this & may mention it to the others. An alliance may be set-up to finish you off.
Changing the subject, thanks for playing. I've enjoyed GMing it & hope to meet you in another game.
AllyReturn to Top
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