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MUDSKIPPER END-GAME STATEMENTS
GM:
Ally Bain [EGS]
Started: 24th October 2003
Finished: 22nd February 2004
Result: England, Germany & Turkey three-way draw
| Country | Player | 01 | 02 | 03 | 04 | 05 | 06 | Result | | Austria | Mike Pearce | 4 | 3 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Eliminated | | England | Patrick D'hyon | 4 | 5 | 5 | 7 | 8 | 10 | Draw | | France | Brian Koon | 5 | 5 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 1 | Survived | | Germany | Ron Snyder | 5 | 5 | 6 | 8 | 9 | 11 | Draw | | Italy | John Engstrom | 4 | 3 | 4 | 2 | 1 | 0 | Eliminated | | Russia | Tomas Mraz | 6 | 7 | 5 | 3 | 3 | 1 | Survived | | Turkey | Leif Kjetil Tviberg | 4 | 5 | 6 | 9 | 9 | 11 | Draw |
ENGLAND (Patrick D'hyon) Hi all,
Firstly let me thank Ally for a great job GM'ing the game. Secondly thank you to all the players for making this an enjoyable game.
Pre-spring 1901 is always the most exciting time in diplomacy. Everyone tries to get an idea on who the others are and what they might be thinking and planning. At the end of the day no one is ever really sure and they go into S1901 with probably less of an idea than what they originally had hoped for. Mudskipper was no different.
I've never had much luck with England and if I was hoping for anything in this game it was to see out 1901 with no one attacking me. From the opening emails I had a general idea that France (Brian) didn't trust Germany (Ron) and France believed that Germany was going to be after him from the start. Well with that in mind I hoped to play on the idea and get conflict happening between FG so I could join the one I thought would benefit me.
In the meantime I let Russia (Tomas) know I was his friend and kept in touch with Turkey (Leif), Austria (Mike) and Italy (John). Everyone kept writing though I was a bit disappointed that Italy and Austria were less communicative than I liked. At first I thought it was the distance between England and those two nations but as the game developed it seemed that I wasn't the only one who had trouble communicating with them. When players don't write you tend to give up on them and this is certainly what happened. I tried to get Italy involved in an alliance with EG vs. France but never had any decent responses. That idea wasn't going to work.
Anyway S1901 went according to plan and I had made no enemies and France and Germany were seemingly not trusting each other due to a past game. That suited me. F1902 and I didn't get Belgium as planned thanks to France bouncing me which ended up being as a result of me telling Germany about the French plan to move to Burgundy. Germany told France who didn't like that. Actually it came down to Brian thinking I had forwarded one of his emails to Germany but what I had done was just cut out a very small part of an email. I never pass on emails and rarely if ever cut out anything from emails and now I know why. So for one of those extremely rare moments it backfired on me. It wasn't a bad mistake in the long run as I managed to talk my way out of it and if anything it created a greater rift between FG and cemented my relations with Germany.
I think at this stage I could have chosen my ally from France or Germany. I chose Germany thinking that Germany would be easier to stab later on if I thought a solo was an option once France was defeated and knowing that Russia was friendly towards me. As it was a stab on Germany never happened.
By 1902 it was obvious that Russia and Turkey were allied. I had good relations with Russia and so did Germany. Also Italy and Austria were not communicating and they were being attacked by RT. For a moment an EFG triple alliance was contemplated to stop RT. It never got of the ground however mostly due to Ron and Brian not trusting each other and me not wanting to drop Germany as an ally so early after making an alliance with him. Relations with Ron went from strength to strength and knowing that the animosity between France and Germany was only building up, I knew I could trust Germany to not change sides for some time either. I had Russia also on my side and with the prospects that I could get his help against Germany after France was defeated I thought I was in for a good chance of maybe doing better than a draw result. The biggest problem was that Russia was also allied with Turkey and they were starting to get a move on. The juggernaut fears and the apparent ease that they would get through an uncommunicative Austria and Italy changed my ambitions of any solo hopes. To be honest they were probably never there in the first place but one cannot help but hope and dream :o)
In 1903 Germany and I decide to stab Russia to put an end to the juggernaut threat. We even managed to keep attacking France and we were able to effectively deliver a killing blow to Russia that year while keeping France contained for a concerted attack on him in 1904. Tomas didn't take the stab well at all and for a while I thought he was going to throw the game in. He even threatened to proxy out his units which was a worry as the only real candidate would have been Turkey.
Tomas I know we (EG) lied and for that I apologise but this is just a game. Don't take it as a personal attack on you because it wasn't. If you hadn't been so successful in the first two years and so openly allied with Turkey we (EG) would never have attacked you. Then things might have been different.
In 1904 Austria was defeated by Turkey and Russian forces left to ponder their fate in the south. I wasn't sure if Russia had proxied to Turkey as he didn't write after making that threat. Italy was left to hold it out on his own and with no communication it was only expected and probably deserved.
France continued to put up some resistance and never stopped trying to make me change my mind and attack Germany. I refused him on quite a few occasions.
However in S1905 I agreed to stab Germany. I lied. I told Turkey the same thing and wrote to them both agreeing to get rid of Germany.
I of course kept Germany in on the discussions as we had planned the deception for a while, having already convinced Russia that if he helped EG attack Turkey then we would guarantee him a place in a 4 way draw. Sorry Tomas we lied....again ;o) Nothing personal to any of you.
By this stage Turkey was a major threat and I knew I had no chance of getting a solo but Turkey seemed likely to have a chance. And when Brian offered to help him to do just that then it became a real concern, even if Leif turned the offer down like he said he did. Ron and I believed we had to stop him in whatever manner we could. Thus the deception of FT for the F1905 turn and continuing to lead Russia along in the hope of being a part of a draw in a few years.
And surprisingly it all worked. France was effectively ruined in that turn and Turkey was slowed down and any chances of a solo (no matter how slim) were stopped. Russia was also committed against Turkey.
By this stage a few draw proposals had been proposed, much to Ally's displeasure :o)
The aim for some time as had been discussed between Leif, Ron and myself, had been for a 3 way draw of EGT until we (EG) had Russia attack Turkey in the Balkans that was the plan. A 2 way EG draw was discussed for several years too. There was even talk of a ET 2 way draw and more than likely a GT 2 way draw though I never was privy to that :o). Then a 4 way EGTR draw was proposed to keep Russia motivated, but was never voted for and wasn't really an option though I at least continued to talk it up with both Russia and Turkey to keep them guessing.
In the final year the 2 way draw between EG was discussed again but in the end I thought that Germany was going to be better placed to take more centres than me. Though a 2 way would have been a good result there would have always been the thought that one of us would stab the other and try for a solo. And while I had little chance of stabbing Germany with any great effect trying for that solo, Germany could have gained most of the Turkish centres while keeping me at bay, so I had to insist on a 3 way draw which included Turkey.
In all a great game. A great alliance with Ron which I believe was one of the best alliances I've been in. From 1902 I trusted Ron completely and I'm sure he trusted me (I hope so). There were probably a few times I could have stabbed him, probably more times than he could have stabbed me actually. I never did because from my point of view I need a good reason to stab an ally. A good chance at a solo would be one of them but the effect has to be pretty devastating or else it isn't worth the effort and will usually end in failure. The stab on Russia was one of those times that proved to be very effective, and though it wasn't a chance at a solo it certainly put an end to the juggernaut.
To the players:
John and Mike. Never really chatted much which was disappointing. John especially I would have liked to have had more talks with and the offer of an EGI alliance vs. France in 1901 was an honest one from me and I also believe from Ron. Shame we never got that chance.
Tomas. A great start to the game and we talked heaps. I know you thought that the lies were unwarranted and honestly I try to lie as little as possible when I play but it is unavoidable at times. Unfortunately you were on the receiving end of a few from me. If it hadn't been for the alliance you had with Turkey and the very effective opening the two of you had, then I am sure we would have remained allies for a long time, probably taking on Germany in time as we had discussed. So please don't take the game results and incidents personally and keep playing mate because you are a good player.
Brian. The bounce in Belgium in F1901 was the deciding factor for me. Yes I know I slipped some info to Ron regarding Burgundy but I would have considered an alliance with you if you had let me take Belgium. Maybe next time we can work together.
Leif. Well played. A very good game from you and I will welcome another game with you anytime.
Ron. Thanks for a great alliance mate. One of the best I've been in and we coordinated our moves almost faultlessly from about 1902. I will definitely enjoy another round of diplomacy with you.
To Ally: Thanks very much for a well run game. No errors and always on time. Certainly a credit to the GM team. Brilliant stuff.
Cheers,
Pat.Return to Top
FRANCE (Brian Koon) Ron Snyder is to Brian Koon, What Babe Ruth is to the Boston Red Sox. That pretty much sums it up.
After 6 games on the site, I can not help but find myself frustrated with the outcome of this game. I seriously thought Ron could put it behind him what happened in Persephone and be back on a even playing feild in mudskipper. Me emails post Persephone and prior to the gamestart had me seriously believing this. I couldn't have been more wrong.
Opening Season - Correspondence with people had been pretty good, Pat and Ron talked alot and Ron pushed hard all season to DMZ bur. I had agreed but at the last minute changed my mind as i felt Ron would be going to Bur. So i supported myself to Bur... Reminding everyone Bur is MY territory.
1901 - Anyways Ron did try to go to Bur and I was heated. I sent him a nasty email, and in return got a nasty one. At this point i was so frustrated from Persephone in wich he kicked my ass, that he was coming back after me again. I must have slept with his sister at some point, only thing i can think of. So we finally patched things up, i thought and i said i wouldnt tell him my moves. But i blocked Pat out of Bel in efforts to try to patch things up with Snyder, you think that would do it right? ER WRONG!
1902 - So here we go again Snyder helps Pat into england and screws me over... AGAIN. I almost want to toss my computer out of my 1st story window. Not as dramatic, but perhaps it might bounce into oncoming traffic. I dont know what i have to do to get this guy on my side, he must like kicking my ass around, perhaps Ron Snyder is the Devil.
Rest of Game - I try to setup a western triple to face what looks to be a forming juggy, looks like it might work, but you know how the story goes, soon enough i get screwed by Snyder again... And to add in turkey does me over good by not agreeing to supports in italy down the road.
I Try to get together the rest of the board to face E/F but i get 1 reply... from 4 other diplomats, i get 1 reply... I can see no one cares about this game, slops to all others for not even replying except leif.
Eventually i do try to form a 3 way at Ron and i tried offering my units to help Pat or Leif solo, heck id rather see one winner then 3.
Anyways thanks to Ally who does a great job. I was hoping for more when i started this game with Engstrom and Pat in it. But my past came to haunt me as Snyder decided to bend me over and give it to me Raw. I'm beyond the point of trying to work out any differences with Snyder, and if i can help it, i wont play in another game with him. From persephone to muskipper this guy has never given me a shot. I've proven in many games i can hold game long alliances, check out battlelords, i could have stabbed turkey and made a run for the solo, but i didnt, check out mastigohpobia too. I don't believe i have a reputation that says you cant work with this guy. So until i find out the mystery as to what i did To Ron Snyder, you can bet we wont see eachother in any games together.
**** SNYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYDDDDDDEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRR*****Return to Top
GERMANY (Ron Snyder) First of all I want to thank Ally for doing a great job GMing the game and to all the players. For me this game was characterized by a fantastic alliance with Pat that made the game memorable for me despite some hard feelings on the part of Brian and Tomas. My initial plan in this game was to form a secret alliance with Turkey and try to go for a two way draw but as can be seen by the end result, it did not work out as planned.
West- Early on I wanted to work with Brian and take out England but when we could not even set up a DMZ in Burgundy, I decided to throw my lot in with Pat. Unfortunately at this time I was unsure of Pat's desire to work with me so I did my best to use Belgium to create trouble between Brian and Pat and then support Pat into Belgium thus appearing as the "good ally" coming to his rescue. Unfortunately I got my hands caught in the cookie jar so I told Pat the truth about what I was doing and he said he understood why I did what I did and the rest was history. From then on there was a E/G alliance that lasted all game long and slowly but surely we defeated France. Brian of course was not too happy about this and accused me of following him from game to game just to stab him which of course is absolutely ridiculous but that was what characterized my dealings with Brian thereafter. As far as Italy went, I might have received 4 emails from him one sentence long so I did not know what was going on with him all game long.
East- As I said I wanted to ally with Turkey early on and so I passed everything of importance I heard from Austria and Russia to him. I had very good early relations with Russia as well and hoped to help form a R/T juggernaut that would weaken Austria allowing me to then stab Russia with Turkish help. I do not know if my efforts to help form a R/T alliance were the reason one appeared but it did none the less. As the game progressed I was finding it difficult to convince Turkey to stab Russia which drove me further into England's arms and ended all illusions on my part of a G/T victory. Pat and I became quite nervous of Russia's rapid growth and after much discussion we finally decided to pull the trigger on Russia in the fall of 1903. This was the turn of the tide for Pat and I as our success in France combined with a successful stab on Russia meant we would at least be part of a three way draw with Turkey or hopefully a 2 way draw between E/G. From then on our main goal was to destroy France and Russia as soon as possible and deny Turkey as many Austrian supply centres as we could as he was a threat to solo. As can be seen from the final result we where successful in that regard but could not reduce the game to a E/G two way draw we where hoping for.
Brian- Sorry for the hard feelings but if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Tomas- I enjoyed our diplomacy early in the game very much, your only mistake was underestimating the depth of my alliance with England just before we stabbed you and how nervous we were of your rapid growth. Had you surrendered Sweden to us when we asked things would have been very different.
Leif- It would have been fun to see the G/T victory I had hoped for early on but your reluctance to stab Russia made me decide to work with England all the way. Congratulations on a well played game and I look forward to playing you again.
Mike- Sorry things did not work out early on, circumstances were against you right from the start.
John- Your emails were way too short and blunt for any meaningful relations to form, I had no clue what you where up to all game long.
Pat- This was the best alliance I have had and expect to have for a long time to come. I can see why you have as many eagle points as you do and learnt a lot working with you. I would not have been a part of any victory were it not for you.Return to Top
RUSSIA (Tomas Mraz) Well, not much to talk about, I think. At the start of the game there were good channels of communication openned with E,G,T. On the other hand, silence from I and silence or only threats from A. That is the reason why I started to work actively with Turkey in the south, even though I marked Leif as a bit romantic player from his previous games, definitely not an ideal long-term ally. In the north I communicated well with G a little bit worse but still well with E and I tried to organise a ERG alliance. I wanted to stab Turkey in 03 or 04 for reasons I mentioned earlier. But that was E+G that stabbed me, later Turkey and the game was over for me. I admit that EG stab was a good one, I should not be so naive and believe to their nice words next time. Later, when the game was lost for me and I could not hurt anybody, Pat went on writing me lies. I could not quite understand why he did it.
I would like to thank Ally for GM and all players for participation.
TomReturn to Top
TURKEY (Leif Kjetil Tviberg) The negotiations pre-1901 was very lively, I got 36 incoming emails before Spring 1901, not counting messages from the GM. I got off very well with Tomas (Russia) from the start, while there was little and non-commital communication with Mike (Austria) and John (Italy). I established good communication with Germany England, in fact Ron and myself agreed to make a secret GT alliance from the start of the game.
Spring 1901 moves came, and the RT alliance was obvious. Naturally, an AI alliance was formed to counter this. Often the RT vs. AI situation runs into a stalemate, but this did not happen here. Part of the reason was that Russia got some help from Germany, both indirectly as there was no fuss over Sweden and directly with support into Boh. Both T and R chose position before centres in the beginning, and we had success with this strategy. I managed to bounce Italy in ION in spring 1902, thus denying him the build from Tunis. This I have never achieved before. By winter 1902, both Italy and Austria was down to three centres, and it was clear that RT had the upper hand.
Russia’s success obviously made E and G nervous, as they stabbed Russia in Spring 1903. At the same time France entered the Med with force. I chose to stick with Russia some more and rather put myself into position to compete with France about the booty in the Med. Soon I had a fleet in ADR, and could choose between attacking Italy or help Russia taking out the remains of Austria.
EG soon stabbed France, which helped my position a lot. France tried to gather the other nations in an “all-against EG” alliance, with little success. Rather, I stabbed Russia in fall 1904, and EGT started to discuss how we should reach a three-way draw.
France then offered to help me getting a solo. At this moment a Turkish solo was not possible, even with French help, so I turned down his offer. But EG obviously got nervous about my intentions, and the road to the three-way wasn’t so straight after all. First England made both me and F believe he has decided to stab Germany for an EFT draw. I should have seen that this was too good to be true, as this would really open up the possibility for a Turkish solo. Anyway, it turned out to be just a ploy to make France open up, and I was kept in the dark for fear of me informing France.
In the east, EG started to cooperate with Russia against me. The rethoric was that Russia deserved a place in the draw. I gave in and accepted a four-way, but then EG changed their mind and wanted a three-way after all. I needed an extra season to see if I could trust them, and then finally the draw was a fact.
I enjoyed this game very much, both the initial close alliance with Tomas and the across the board alliance with Pat and Ron. Thanks to you all for playing!
Leif Kjetil TvibergReturn to Top
GM (Ally Bain) Thanks to all for playing & well done England, Germany & Turkey.
As Pat said, I do dislike too many EGP simply for two reasons. The first is that I can't understand others reasons that EGP are a part of tactics. I do in Gunboat but in normal games, surely communication between each other does it? The other reason is perhaps me being a bit lazy. Type too many when you know there going to be turned down. Yeah, I'm lazy about that. :-)
As mentioned above, thanks to you all for playing but again a big thanks goes to Tom. As some of you might know I'm doing an article on different languages & Tom gave me the Polish words. You can see them by using http://mysite.freeserve.com/alb_gsb/diplomacy/articles/language.htm
Another page on ALB & GSB, shows the a few stats on various games & this game is also added & can be seen on http://mysite.freeserve.com/alb_gsb/diplomacy/stats/normalendings.htm.
See you on the board.
AllyReturn to Top
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