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RED-TAILED BLACK SHARK END-GAME STATEMENTS
GM:
Ally Bain [EGS]
Started: 3rd March 2003
Finished: 26th July 2004
Result: Six-way draw
| Country | Player | 01 | 02 | 03 | 04 | 05 | 06 | 07 | 08 | 09 | 10 | 11 | Result | | Austria | Matthew Myatt | 4 | 5 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 5 | 5 | Draw | | England | Frank De Vocht | 4 | 3 | 2 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | Eliminated | | France | Pellegrino Andrea | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 14 | Draw | | Germany | Tony Sait | 5 | 6 | 5 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 2 | Draw | | Italy | Mike Dean | 4 | 4 | 6 | 4 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | Draw | | Russia | Carles Fit | 4 | 6 | 6 | 8 | 7 | 4 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 2 | Draw | | Turkey | Doug Stewart | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 8 | 8 | Draw |
AUSTRIA (Matthew Myatt) "Well this has got to be the most drawn out game that I've ever played in!! Apologies to all involved for my very limited involvement as I was very much limited to my internet access for the duration due my travelling for work most of the time during the game - as this EGS testifies to coz I've submitted it at the very last minute which fits with my style during the game I suppose. Actually due to my problems with finding time to play this game effectively I've decided to take a break from Dip2000 games for a while, apart from to finish my other active game (Rummy Nose Tetra) and to play the odd Gunboat game which are far less demanding of my time, but I will return to full Dip status before long (well I do have my top 25 position to defend on the rankings after all!!) and hope to meet you all again sometime soon.
Anyway, back to Red Tailed Black Shark. As much as my sketchy memory can recall I started with a tenuous alliance with Italy (which he broke) and another tenuous alliance with Russia (which was also broken). The big impact of the first couple of years though has to be the way that me and Germany were drawn in and suckered by Italy as to a potential 3 way alliance which was brought to a shuddering halt when Italian armies strolled into Munich & Trieste unopposed and uninvited!! But praise must go to Mike, due to the fact that he immediately realised his error and if he pursued this course of action then it would hand the game to France or possibly Turkey. He backed down and convinced a very reluctant Germany and Austria (with the help of Turkey) to accept a new alliance and withdrew his forces to set up a stalemate line in the Med against the advancing French fleets. This was probably the most successful maneouvre of the game as we managed to form a 3 way naval blockade of the Med with a Turkish fleet in TYS backed up by an Austrian fleet and an Italian fleet - I don't remember seeing anything like this before in any other game so congratulations must go to all involved that we managed to pull it off without us all falling out again.
By this time Germany was hard pressed in the north against the marauding French (who had already overwhelmed the English), and our now solid 3 way Austro/Italian/Turkish alliance was all that stood between France and a solo victory - Russia by now had been reduced to a minor presence in the north due to concerted action against him by Austria and Turkey.
The only thing left to decide at this stage was whether we took the German centres or supported them, but since the French were already knocking on his door the latter option was the only practical one.
And apart from a minor blip where there was a breakdown in communication between Turkey and his allies (where Turkish forces wandered into Budapest) which could have undermined the whole line - the only reason it didn't was due to the fact that any friction between us would have handed the game to France, the allied stalemate held firm.
All that remained was to convince France that he wasn't going to get the solo and that a 6 way draw was the only option other than sending orders in ad infinitum. France didn't accept this and the game was duly put to rest by the GM. I appreciate Andrea's opinion that nothing less than a 3 or 4 way draw is worth having but when the choice for the rest of us was defeat or a share in a 6 way draw then it was not a hard decision to make!! I have to say (and I'm sure everyone will agree with this) that Red Tailed Black Shark was not the best of games to play in. Apart from the first couple of years my role was largely to support others in a stalemate line with no hope of progression.
Thanks to all for putting up with my, at best, inconsistant involvement in Red Tailed Black Shark. As I say I hope to play against you all again once I get my spare time back. And thanks to Ally for GM-ing the game so patiently and for taking action in putting us all out of our misery at the end ...................... and commiserations to England for being the only one left out of the draw due to the small point of being eliminated - I'm sure if we could we would have found of way of reinstating him and voting a 7 way ..............................!! ..... No?"
Cheers Ally,
MattReturn to Top
FRANCE (Pellegrino Andrea) "First of all: Thank you Ally! You did a great job with this game, as you know I welcomed the decision to stop the game and I think it was well done!
Before entering in the details about my own view of the game I would like to immediately clarify why I opposed every draw proposal. Well it was not a difficult job, after all very few draw proposal were made....and the very first one was from myself! As you all know, I do not consider very large draw proposal acceptable. Off course I know they may happen but this is not a reason to accept them. I believe the GM must decide when stop such kind of game. I advised Ally around S10 about this policy.
OK, let's enter in the game now....what follow is mainly recovered from my memory and from brief summary I sent Ally at time, so if something is not exact, please forgive me!
During Pre Spring 01 England was not talking! Even worst he was talking with other player (although not to much as far as I know)! On the other side Tony (Germany) which I knew from a previous game was communicating a lot (as usual for him!), and very soon we agreed on collaborating.
Italy seemed not aimed to me, and after a while we negotiated a tight DMZ agreement.
Still I was open to a change of tactic but in S01 England misordered army Lpl! I already had more than half an idea to build a long term alliance with Germany, this misorder made my decision definitive. Sorry Frank, but I think you can see I had no other choices. We had not a lot of time to get knowing each other, see you next time!
So me and Tony built a nice plan in which France was going to attack England from NAO and Germany was going to pressure him in NTH while negotiating with Russia Norway (off course with the plan to get Sweden very soon too!). As soon as England was out, Germany was supposed to move east and me to move in the med.
As for what I was concerned the attack to England went very well, what a shame that Germany had some problem in handling Russia and Italy and that Tony was not able to grow as much as me ;-) ....but I still needed him as an ally, at least for a while, And so I agreed in giving him Belgium.
Soon enough (around 1903) England was down to two and not able to recover, meanwhile Italy entered Berlin with a strangely wandering army! It was time to enter the med. So I entered Naf and built a fleet in Mar. I certainly did not told anyone about this, but I think Italy was not too much surprised.
I quickly reached Tunis but Mike reaction was perfect both in time and diplomatic effort. Back then he started a diplomatic effort aimed to stop me and to participate in a large draw, in order to do that he even conceded its SC's to Austria/Turkey: without any doubt he was successful!
Well done Mike! I really look forward in playing a new game with you! You have the not common gift to make me mad with very few well written, completely gentleman words. I do not know really why, but for this reason I feel you are a challenge to my dip capabilities.
I must say I misjudged the Italy/Austria/Turkey alliance, or better I misjudged both Mike ability (far greater than I thought) to argument the fact I was going to win if not stopped in the med and Doug desire (far smaller than I thought!) to play for a win .
Back then I was just 8/9 SC and Russia was 7/8: I decided I was going to concentrate myself in the north while waiting the alliance to break. The fact is Turkey and Austria believed Mike and simply stopped to play for a win.
As for me, I certainly did a big error (which I think did cost me my possibility to win): I was not as active as it was needed in diplomacy with Turkey.
By the way I never had occasion to talk with Austria which was very silent and so concentrated all my effort in breaking the alliance on Turkey! Matt this is the second game we play a game together and, I think I can count our whole emails set on my two hands.... I hope next time you'll be available to more talking!
I believed Doug was going to break the alliance whatever happened and that I just had to rush for the best position in order to take advantage of what would happen then. So I waited instead of actively try to push Doug in stabbing. When I started doing this it was certainly too late. When I started to propose (and actually do) retreat in the med in order to assure confidence to Turkey, the game was no doubt already finished. The only thing that kept me from voting the draw was my own policy and a desperate hope that Doug was going to have a last change of mind (and the simple fact that very few draw proposal were made!).
By the way, back then I decided to wait and concentrate myself in the north. I and Germany still were allied and we agreed he was going to go east and attack Russia with my help.
But I had already decided to attack Germany and for two times I tried somehow clumsily to position myself in order to attack him by forces, and for two time Russia moves opposed what I was trying to do! Meanwhile Austria and Germany found a possible way to attack my central defense in Bur/Mar, I spotted that in time and moved in order to retire my army Fin from Norway to Central France: again Russia opposed my moves! At that time I was really desperate for a new army in Paris!! Luckily enough Russia was under big pressure from Turkey and he certainly needed help, also he was in a perfect position to offer help to an attack to the German controlled Denmark. But this was not enough in order to stop the German/Austrian threat, Germany had just to order in a waiting manner defending Den and Bel and then attack in S09 knowing Russia and I were collaborating.....I was not in the position to afford such a possibility. I needed an army IMMEDIATELY!
So I asked Russia to inform Germany that I was mad at having a new army (which I actually was) and that my plan were to try to enter Holland with fleet NTH, not caring what it was going to happen in case Germany ordered to NTH himself...I was going to have a new army back in France!!!
Also I informed Austria about the same plan, while asking him what he intend to do with army Boh and promising him I will be in Holland if he decide to attack Germany.....After a while Germany informed me he was self supporting in Den.
What now? Supposing Russia delivered the misinformation (that I was attacking Holland) was Germany informing me he was self supporting Den in order to assure I tried to enter Holland while he was in fact defending it? Or did Russia told him about my plan and Germany was just trying to assure I changed my mind?
I had to be sure about what was going to happen....was he really self supporting (which mean I needed to attack Holland)? or he was covering Holland which mean I needed to remain in my plan to attack Den?
I was not in the position to afford a failure....So I decided to play Tony a little trick (I Do not even know if you received and read this tricky-email Tony...all the same excuse me for this, it is not something I normally do, and certainly I won't try it after this EGS!): I mailed Tony a message addressed to a "RUSSIA" address book entry which pointed (for a supposed error of mine) at Germany email instead that at Russia one! The message told Russia that I had information Germany was going to support himself in Den and that I was going to Holland (and added Belgium too for good riddance sacrificing that in order to make the message seem true) and asked him to move in BAL!
I do not know if Tony believed it or not. Don't know if he changed its order, or decided not too, do not know if he simply had ordered that way and decided to keep it......or if never received that message.....I look forward to Tony EGS to have some highlight on that!
The fact he did not defended Belgium make me think that after all he did not received it or simply discarded it....but all the same I am pretty satisfied with my diplomatic effort and I think I did a good job.....and I can assure you all It was very exciting waiting for that adjudication mail!
BTW Tony, playing Diplomacy with you is always a lot of fun. Also while discussing Football and other personal matter I started to think of you more as a pen friend than a Dip rival! Hope to meet you soon again and I will try to stay in contact if that will be not possible!
So I had my own new army in Central France and I used it successfully to push back German units and establish again a stalemate. Then Russia did NMR, surely I did not expected him to NMR, principally because he talked to me a lot, answering all my messages (three) and even prompting one himself. This was a problem as I was not totally sure about Russia alliance, and I was very vulnerable to a stab from him. Luckily enough it seem to me no one contacted him or that he simply decided to stick
with me. So soon enough I maneuvered in order to control him in total security and to have no problem to enter his SC if ever a victory was reachable.
Carles, I remember during early game having a tense discussion on lying when playing Diplomacy, also I remember threatening you a few time when I was open to a stab from you. Maybe I was not always very nice, but overall I feel we had good Diplomacy talking and all this is part of the game isn't it? It was very hard to ally with a Barcellona supporter ;-) I had to continuously repeat to myself that real life matters must not be carried on Diplomacy games! For whoever read this and does not know: Barcellona f.c. (undeservingly!) won UEFA Champions Cup from Sampdoria u.c. in the first and probably last for ever European Championship Football final we managed to reach (back in 1992)!
Then, at last (how much too late!) I started to work in order to convince Turkey to break the alliance and stab Austria. I did a lot of sweet talking about two way draw and also decided to demonstrate Turkey that everybody wanted a share on our draw: In order to do that I issued a draw proposal which generated email from everybody, All where pretending to be included in
the draw......the fact that Russia answered these late (after an email from me to Turkey guessing he wanted a share too) was the classic "cherry" on top of the cake!
Also I started to tell Ally about my policy and I suggested Turkey to explain to Ally its plans. Soon enough I understood Turkey was not going to stab, so I told him to take its decision and to tell Ally. I explained I was not going to vote for a large draw, but I too was tired to play in a game that had nothing more to happen! In my view we just needed to give Ally a good picture of our strategies, so that he would be in the position to stop the game himself whenever he felt no more was going to happen. Instead Turkey answered me assuring he just needed time. He told me he had a plan and was going to stab very soon. He told me he preferred to risk failure in order to try to get a two way. I asked him to let me know what he wanted me to do, if anything, in order to feel more secure. So when Turkey Army entered Budapest I was certain Doug had made its decision, and it was favorable to my plans! I was excited as well as still doubtful! But I must admit that I dreamed victory. Cannot say I deserved
that though!
Unfortunately Doug changed its mind The final part of the game was very annoying. Draw proposal where not so common after all (not that it would have changed matter), Turkey continuously promised war to the alliance and continuously failed me. So I decided to play one last option: retire my units of the med and maybe of central Europe SC too. But I acted too late, when in fact my position was not anymore a threat to win the game Turkey was too tired and simply gave up.
This is about all. A few more comment and I am finished:
Mike and all, Had Ally permitted it, I was going to vote for a 7 draw including Frank too! Frank given how the game finished I am really sorry you were eliminated! I feel you deserved to draw as much as all other player! Also had anyone of you proposed a 5 way draw without me in it, I was going to vote for it. I really do not care in participating in a six way, and certainly would have preferred survival with 16 SC!
I enjoyed this game, and the six way draw does not change this fact, but I really do not understand what was in Turkey mind. I can just suppose Doug was under a incredibly good spell (which I think was done by Mike, but who can tell? maybe Matt is the black wizard!) and simply Doug never considered the option to win as he was too worried to give the victory to me. As said I never received a single proposal from Turkey. Doug never told me what he wanted me to do in order to proceed with a stab to the alliance. He simply told me he had a plan and I had not to worry.....Doug, I really do not understand your way to handle this game: we should have obtained a two way draw! Off course there were risk in doing that, I told you myself. But I believe that if you play diplomacy too much worried about other winning you will finish up in boring game all the time!"
that's about all Ally thank you again!
Cheers
AndreaReturn to Top
GERMANY (Tony Sait) Ally, First of all a big thank you for doing an excellent job of masterminding this contest, it must have been quite frustrating at times. Secondly may thanks to all the participants for their participation, the e-mails were never less than entertaining and the exchange of views on other subjects were also great fun. Shame about the football !
The game itself. I knew Andreas and Matt from a previous Dip2000 game and Mike from the latter days of Dolchstoss, but had to start new aquaintancies with the other three chaps. Things started out a mite trickily when Russia moved into Germany in Spring 01 but Carles saw reason and moved out again in the autumn. This, however, was a portent of things to come and we never really got on from that moment onwards. An agreement was struck with France to tackle England, whilst maintaining a watchful eye on my back, establishing a very good understanding with Austria in the meantime. Russia grew rapidly in the south and suddenly became a major threat at the end of 1903, just as the Italians marched into Berlin. This had been a bit of a surprise to the German government, but given Mike's playing style I should have realised that anything was possible ! The first Franco-Prussian war broke out about this time, and the early bath was only just avoided as Turkey came to the rescue by attacking the Russian southern flank just as the Reichstag persuaded the Russians, who had kindly ejected the Italians from Berlin, to leave German soil. Peace broke out between Germany and France as the Russian threat was acknowledged, and the opportunity of easy pickings in the warm Med became available to Andreas. If I remember rightly there was a contentious Russian NMR about Aut1906 which threw up all sorts of possibilities for the other parties, as we discussed whether Carles would drop out or not. Unfortunately, I proved to be a difficult person to work with, nobody trusted me, Russia get fighting and before long things started to go pear shaped. France grew exponentially as England slipped to a watery grave, and suddenly Austria-Turkey were looking very menacing in the east. I must have changed sides about 7 times in three seasons at this stage and did not endear myself to anyone: I do apologise folks, it won't happen again ! The upshot was that the two warring factions (France/Russia and Turkey/Austria decided the krauts had to go, and before you could say "Kaiser Wilhelm" there were all sorts of foreign workers in the fatherland. I think Aut08 was the deadline which saved me when I managed to convince Doug and Matt that a dead Germany equalled a French win and after that it settled to a trenchwar of attrition, promises, counter-promises, threats and pleas. Thankfully, common sense finally came through and the war came to an end in a bit of a whimper ... I don't think I have been part of a six-way draw before - especially not in 1912 !!
Well done everyone, and thanks for the continuing communications, even when we were not seeing eye-to-eye.
cheers
TonyReturn to Top
RUSSIA (Carles Fit) What to say about this game? Well, I'm glad it's finally over. It's been nice playing with all of you (despite all the stabbing done). I just feel sorry that, due to a misunderstanding, I NMRed at a very important point of the game, when Turkey and I were fighting over the Black Sea and the Balcans. That gave Turkey the upper hand, since my units did not get their orders on time. And, from then on, I had a very hard time trying to keep my bourders under control. Nevertheless, I must admit that Turkey was a good rival. Together from the beginning, we would've done a very good job, I believe, but... That's life!
There was also a moment in which Germany and Russia could've been good allies. But the Kaiser was not to sure about it. It's funny how he became so worried at the beginning of the game due to a missorder. I sent an army to Silesia by error... and I had a hell of a time tryig to convince him that I got confused with the names. I really did!
As far as France... well, I don't kow what to say. We became allies when we had to (in my case, it was a matter or survival), but I kept watching my back and expecting a knife at any time. Sorry Andrea, but I'm being sincere.
Thanks to everyone, and I hope that we meet at some other game. And I wish all the best to you (except when playing against me, of course).
CarlesReturn to Top
TURKEY (Doug Stewart) 1901 - "The Turkish empire was brutally cut short of a victory before it could unleash it's full might." Actually the game ended with 6 survivors and little hope for Turkey to make that claim as the game had reached an unfortunate impasse, with everyone protecting everyone else by threat or coercion.
I strived for an early alliance with Italy in the hope I could cold armies through the north. I was hedging my bets with Russia in that I was hoping he would work with me and we could get a steamroller going early. I did of course entreat Austria to work with me against Russia as well, in the hope one of these alliances would be realised.
What followed was something completely different. Russia jacked up against all my suggestions, so I simply decided to go all out for him. That was the easy decision. Austria agreed to attacking Russia, and Italy was going to go after France - I think.... . Ahh, some breathing room. Surprisingly The Turkish army ended the first year in Rumania, and Russia gained no builds.
1902 - Oh the treachery - Austria supported Russia from Galecia to Rumania and crushed my unit, while retreating from the Black Sea to Bulgaria. Why didn't I retreat to the open Budapest? I could have, and I did have the order written, but figured that it would only keep the Austrians offside - I would now use that as a wonderful leverage to get in their good books. Besides, Italy's position could now threaten both Austria and myself. Staking a claim to Bulgaria in the fall was a bonus.
1903 - I was now completely lined up against the Austrian/Italian alliance, and with Russia's Black Sea fleet gone, I had little to fear from the north. A period of consolidation. And finally Italy has slipped into Trieste.
1904 -With an ally in Italy (the bugger was still in the (AEGEAN) I now launched north again towards Russia, then in the fall surprisingly took a gamble to go to Serbia. I was flabbergasted - I pulled it off. Expansion at last ! But the French were coming.
1905 - Finally I launched my first foray into the Aegean Sea. Italy had lost Tunis, and a quick re-jig of fleets secured the south seas against the French, unfortunately need three countries to do so. I also claimed Rumania.
1906 - Sevastapol is overrun by my Rumanian army, while I spearhead the defence against France. The German/French alliance is moving north and south. to the east.
1907 - The southern stalemate line was forged, and except for one season's aberration (1901S) would hold till the end of game. I claimed Moscow for myself, and encouraged Austria to push against Germany.
1908 - I moved to Livonia and blocked any pressure from StP, and forced France/Russia to hold their line. France had nowhere to go, so germany became a tasty morsel. Austria convinced Germany to build a central stalemate line.
1909 - I continued to move my units to the front line. "Stab! Stab now!" I kept getting from France. But I could only get two centres. I would maneuver and wait.
1910 - There was finally a chance to reduce the number of competitors to 5. I coordinated an attack with Italy and Austria to hit Germany, but for all sorts of reasons nothing happened. Well not quite nothing - I took Budapest.
1911 - The game carried on till 1912, but the threat that Italy would abandon it's borders to France if I stabbed Austria again, meant I would gain no more significant centres. The game was over and it was now just a case of waiting it out - and positioning in case a last minute choice became available.
The game concluded, and while I was content that I had played to the best of my opportunities, it was sad to still have 6 players in this game. Many thanks to Ally for a sterling effort in GMing this game. Thanks to my 'ally' Mike for working so well with me. Well done to Matt, who kept me honest all game. Carles and I never got on because I took too strong an opening position in our discussions, but he proved a worthy adversary, and I hope to have a game where we can work together. Tony and I had conversions of convenience, but he did well to gain survival. I had little to converse to Frank about in this game. Finally I must congratulate Andrea on a superb France, and I am glad that I can now recover from his many messages of encouragement to stab Austria and Italy - hard. The retreat of his units from the immediate front line was becoming a serious temptation. All in all an enjoyable game.
Doug Stewart (Turkey)Return to Top
GM (Ally Bain) If you lot (players) are a bit disappointed with a six-way draw then quite frankly you did better than I once had too. Yeah, I was involved with a seven-way draw in a F-F game & the game wasn't far from this game. Strangely enough, I was France & had the same number that Andrea had in this game. I tried to do all I could to break-up the anti-France alliance & again like Andrea, it went nowhere.
Moving onto me closing this game rather than you as players, that is something that no GM wants to do. The reason for finishing it is simply that nearly all players were voting in favour of the EGP bar the one you know. Thankfully some of you were saying in your orders, your view on the EGPs & no possible stab was said & so I felt there was no need to continue the game.
Changing subject, I do write stats & as said before, your openings were added & now your result has been added. The Web Address is; http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/alb_gsb/diplomacy/stats/normalendings.htm. The other part is that when the Waiting List for 'Admiral' Gunboat Competition starts, I'll let you know.
Either way, I look forward to meeting up with you in other games.
AllyReturn to Top
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